To ask if you refused to help with older relatives and how that went down?

[Fragmentedbrain]

I have 2 parents and 2 parents in law closing in on needing care. Reading other threads here it sounds as though this has a high chance of ruining my life over the next decade or so.

My husband and I work full time, love our jobs and don't have any caring responsibilities or instincts, not even a cat. I don't want to give up work or holidays or enjoying this bit of my life before I in turn am too old.

If we refuse to get involved beyond visits to say hello, how screwed are our parents?

(As we are child free I am not worried about any example setting although appreciate the relationship with siblings could get tricky)

Unfortunately, some parents haven’t spent their lives worrying about their children and thinking of their best interests! Some have wrecked their children’s lives!

Thanks. I'll look into it.

'My mother who is early 70s refuses point blank to deal with anything other than cash or cheque. She won't buy anything at all online using her bank details'

Christ @rainbowunicorn , this was like reading about my MIL! She died a few years ago, aged 75, so hardly ancient. She used to absolutely refuse to cooperate with anything that would have made her life easier - cleaner, online shopping, online banking etc. She was using a mobile phone that was 25 years old and refused to even discuss upgrading it. We lived 6 hours away so not able to 'pop round' and sort things. It drove us around the bend. Loads of sympathy

'Old people' who move overseas will most likely have paid tax and NI all their working lives. I'm a bit puzzled why you think they wouldn't be entitled to the same care (hollow laugh) as anyone else.

I will not be providing care for my parents or my ILs. I work full time in a job I really enjoy and am still building my pension, building up my savings again after a couple of big hits for redundancy and recession, paying my mortgage and supporting children at university.

Our parents on the other hand have gold standard final salary pensions, bought houses for peanuts which are now worth half a million and had paid off their mortgages in their 40s and all of their children had grants at university and tuition fees paid. They have thousands in the bank.

I am simply not in a position to go part time to ferry them to appointments while they have hundreds of thousands in the bank. They can get taxis. I will not be doing their shopping when delivery services exist. We talk about men and weaponised incompetence, well it also afflicts the elderly. My local surgery has rolled out an online form for booking an appointment. There's hysteria locally about old people dying because of it and how they don't have anyone to help them. Bollocks quite honestly. It's weaponised incompetence.

I will offer our parents advice and make sure they don't get scammed but I expect them to do what they can and buy in the help they need. My mother is happy with this. My in-laws are not but that's DH's problem.

It isn't selfish to prioritise providing for your own retirement and it's pretty unkind for people to suggest it is. How does it help if I sacrifice my own security to provide for people who don't feel like spending their own money on providing for themselves?

'assuming no backstory of abuse etc'

People always throw this line out, and often have a VERY narrow and specific definition of what 'abuse' means. Family dynamics can be seriously complicated and nowhere near as straightforward as 'you love your parents and so you do XYZ for them'

She probably doesn’t get her self worth from what she does for others which is an excellent and admirable place to be. More women should learn from it, its martyr after resentful martyr on here.

True story

Elderly person lived alone, but her friend helped to care for her in her own home.
The carer friend died (age in 80s)
Her adult children lived in a country on the other side of the world
Children did not return to help
So the Elderly person went into a nursing home

What was the alternative ?

Yes you're right of course but it's not unreasonable to do as much as possible to plan in advance to mitigate some of the problems old age brings.

My plans include:

• Swedish death cleaning (started last year);
• Got my BMI down to the healthy range;
• Regular exercise including light weight training;
• Preventative medicine eg all the free screening available, healthy diet etc;
• Plans to move soonish from an old cottage in the sticks to a modern house with disabled access, small garden, on a bus route, close to health centre, local shops, taxis etc;
• Having help with cleaning / gardening;
• Saving money to pay for extras my pension might not cover;
• Keeping up a social life and personal interests;
• Staying abreast with essential new technology;

I can't guarantee I won't need help/care in future but at least I'll be doing everything possible to remain independent as long as I can and I'm definitely prepared to pay for outside help so that my adult children aren't unduly burdened.

It is not easy navigating the system or uprooting your life, it isn’t wrong, it's life. I was lucky enough that I was local to DM and working PT.

I completely get not wanting to get to the point where you have to go over twice a day, take them to every appointment, do personal care, etc. No one wants it. It’s immensely draining and heavily impacts on your life. It’s shit. BUT, at one point your parents changed every single one of your nappies, took you to every doctor/dentist/optician appointment, helped you to learn how to read and write and really fucking grafted to raise you into a decent, educated and interesting human being. My feeling is that you need to give a level of support back just to meet the standard of being a half decent person. That level of support could actually be quite minimal, perhaps helping them to set up lots of processes and hired help, but everyone owes their parents some kindness in their old age. Unless they were dicks.

Not sure why your confidence has gone, Weary. You are only 65, which is the new 45. You have years ahead of you, and were obviously in a job where you were very competent, you also sorted out your late DH's affairs. What has caused the change, iyo? Do you have enough interactions with others?🌸

Why wouldn't they? If they moved abroad in retirement presumably they've paid their fair share of NI before they moved.

I agree with this. If they've been good parents whose care and attention has enabled you to achieve the state of bliss your life currently seems to be, I would want to give up a few days leave every three months to visit, organise things, take them out and about and just spend quality time with them. A friend whose mother lived in Ireland and couldn't be there for her parents found a local woman, a retired nurse, whom she paid well to become a kind of professional family friend and act as her proxy. Worth looking for someone like that now.

I helped nurse my mum in her final year. She had a particularly distressing form of cancer and at times it was hell. But in the middle of it all we got to know each other better than we ever had and when she eventually died that was some comfort.

If they moved abroad in retirement presumably they've paid their fair share of NI before they moved.

why would that be the case?

Im actually shocked by this thread. I think it is easy to say what we will or won't do until the scenario actually arrives. A bit like having kids. I had all the answers until I actually had one.

Elderly care is similar. You think the State will step in, the sale of the house will cover all the costs, their needs will all be met by paid carers. Well, from experience this is only partly true.

The arranging, the phone calls, the hospital visits, the financial assessments, the top up fees, the disability equipment to be bought and installed, the list goes on. And that is with State help.

If you have enough money then you may be able to put them directly into a care home and forget about them but with fees of £1,300 per week, it won't take long before everything is gone. And when it's gone they will be put into a lesser care home or a top up is required.

Caring for elderly parents isn't what anyone wants but it isn't a responsibility many of us can avoid, even if we think we can. I'm sad that so many people think so little of their parents that they won't help.

I think this thread has been pretty realistic 🤷‍♀️

Nobody is saying that being old and end of life is some kind of Shangri-La, at the same time people are expressing their unwillingness to put their lives on hold or in some cases completely derail their lives to care for parents.

I do agree that until it is a reality you really don’t know what you’re going to be willing to do.

Of course they can. They can avail themselves of the services available (no doubt after hours of phone calls and getting the runaround). Or one of their kids can take them to their appointment. Because that is a normal thing to do. The whole point is that they are less able to be independent and need some assistance.

No one HAS to do anything to help. I’m saying in my circles it’s unusual not to. It’s just not usual to not help, because you just don’t want to. I’m not talking about intimate personal care. The example the op provided was a chiropodist appointment.

Caring for my grandparents at home has torn out family apart. Lots don't speak anymore due to the resentment. Noone could cope, some of my cousins who were most involved had burn out and moved away. The people doing the most thought everyone should do as much - regardless of jobs, kids etc. my grandparents were quite selfish imo and refused anything that would make caring for them easier.
Of their 6 kids, one has been disowned by the family for not helping, another has moved away as couldn't cope, my aunt only speaks to my dad now, and my other auntie and Uncle are still close but say everyone else was useless. Sad as they were all close before.

Reading this thread with interest but your post stood out. Spent a year fighting to keep my 85 year old Dad in "temporary accommodation" perfect for his needs, (sheltered, extra care) while they kept trying to dump him miles from his surgery, shops, everything. Had to involve our local mayor and MP in the end. He signed his grudgingly awarded permanent tenancy (with a years probation) from his hospital bed in late March. He then died on April 17th, never having been able to enjoy his newfound security.

Why was he in temporary accommodation? Because my SM was released from a section too early, attacked him three times in the week after she got home, and he had to leave for both their safety. She owned the house outright, so no duty of care for my Dad who had been her carer for 14 years since she last list the plot. 40 year relationship, 25 years of marriage, and the LA and CMHTs would do nothing.

Without me, I dread to think what might have happened. Am certain all the stress hastened his demise. He dropped 5 stone in a year despite eating healthily and managing his health conditions admirably. Nuclear test veteran, which counted for absolutely nothing, even though his GP was allegedly a veteran's advocate.

Am I pissed? You betcha.

Also - cuckooing. Look it up. On the rise due to neglect of the elderly at the bottom of the pile. Best friend works on an elderly assessment ward, and every week there's some horror story and police involvement.

I despise this new attitude that elderly = burden and worthless. They're people, goddammit, and none of us is immune from aging (if we're lucky).

If we refuse to get involved beyond visits to say hello, how screwed are our parents?

How would this work in practice? You visit to 'say hello' and you notice that your mum is forgetting lots of things and seems very confused. You see your dad getting frustrated with her, that she's not able to understand why he's angry. She's locked out of her online accounts, and can't understand why. She insists on making you tea but she spills the boiling water. Or she puts the electric kettle on the gas stove and turns it on. Your dad persuades her to go to the Dr, she's diagnosed with dementia.

Or your dad falls and breaks his hip. He's in hospital for a while, and when he comes out he's frail, confused, has lost confidence - and he's a lot less mobile. He doesn't always make it to the toilet on time. Your mum is trying to do everything for him - and keep their life running, and she's finding it really hard - and you can see how stressed and unhappy she is.

Would you really just keep visiting to 'say hello' and nothing else? You just keep turning up with a cheery 'hello!' and pretending that there's nothing to see here?

Or do you stop visiting?

Or do you expect your sibling to take it on?

It sounds like you and your partner have a very neat, tidy, little life - and you have been able to put your needs - and only your needs - first for a long time, because no one else has really needed you in any way. That might change. My sister and her partner don't have kids, and love their child-free lives. But because they have so much freedom (compared to DH and I who have kids) they see themselves as the first line of defence when it comes to our parents. Because they can.

This is something I won't need to worry about because both my parents are dead. My mil is a sweet kind person and my sil has said they will have her live with them if she ever needs care, but I wouldn't resent helping her out

Thee is a lot in between only turn up for hello and tea and full time care
So maybe you get lpa or dh does and you act as go between with care agency
You check on house and call the plumber or electrician
You arrange an online recurring order for groceries to time with carer putting away and checking fridge for mouldy items etc
So decide what it is
Someone needs lpa and being at end of phone

I recently had dealings with an elderly woman whose husband had been in hospital for a month. In that time a procedure had gone wrong causing major bleeding, he had been overdosed on medication, Nurses had failed to recognise serious side effects of medication, he had lost two stone in a month as wasn't eating and developed a pressure sore. She got to the point where she was spending all day at the hospital to ensure he got care ! We agreed how awful it must be for people who don't have anyone to advocate for them. Fortunately this man had a retired wife who was in good enough health to be there with him. Many have no spouse or a spouse who is as ill/ disabled as them or adult kids who could not be with them due to jobs or family commitments.

I don't think anyone has mentioned yes how frustrating it can be when they refuse to take meds and neglect their health, we have this at present with sky high blood pressure

But they will then expect us to runt hem around to appts when it all goes wrong, or care for them after a stroke

Some element of self care is required, this is unfair