Where is the money going to come from to meet the UK people expectations?

[Pandersmum]

So assuming that:

• everyone who receives disability benefits needs them and may actually believe they should be entitled to more
• pensioner benefits are non negotiable and again many believe they should be greater than current
• working people (most) believe they are already taxed highly and believe they cannot be taxed any more without further impact to their feeling of unfairness and resentment of the system
• it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state
• Mental health challenges are very real in any age of person and therefore they must be financially supported by the state and if in work, by their employers
• rent (whatever level) should be supported by the state because it is a basic right to have a home
• NHS treatment (& the best treatment) should be free be all, no matter how expensive it is or whatever their age because people pay their taxes
• businesses are businesses and are there to make profits for their owners - therefore they can choose which country they operate in / pay their taxes in - if they don’t like the UK tax system, they can move somewhere else
• ’in work benefits’ are necessary to support ‘low paid workers, often in essential jobs’ to gain similar amounts of financial remuneration to those on benefits
• high net worth individuals can move if they don’t like the UK tax system

So just where is the money going to come from to fund the UK population of financial expectation of what the state should provide?

I suspect your daughter may struggle getting another WFH job. All the people I know who WFH are also being forced back into this office, some who have many years of experience and relevant degrees are having no luck with the job searches. It’s a tough market out there as most people are probably in the same boat.

@Crushed23 I don't think those are great examples. Without free dentistry people just don't go to the dentist at all - as the massive increases in people being admitted to A&E with severe and dangerous tooth decay shows.

And the value of a degree is constantly being called into question on here and in the world at large, since for many students the cost is simply not worth it.

I agree about the pupils, but where do you suggest they go?

And here on this thread we can see the problem.
Those who insist that anyone who doesn’t work is crippled with disease, on the point of death and cannot possibly work. Yet that is a lie. I know many, many people who struggle into work regardless of how they feel.
People saying you don’t get all your rent paid if you don’t work. Hmmm well the fact is they absolutely do, because who else pays their rent when they don’t have a job? 🤣🤣🤣 the magic fairy? I don’t really care about which part of the benefits they use to pay which bills, but make no mistake, if a couple do not have jobs, then they must certainly are not paying their own bills are they? The tax payer us paying them.

None of this is sustainable. Same with the madness with the boats and the billions that costs

The lowest. Although at the time the dad did tell my dh how much that was but I don’t remember.

Lord Clyde

I have no idea. If I were to guess, I think the NHS will start doing less and less. Non-urgent treatments (the ones with horrendous wait lists, I’m told) will be phased out. Treatments like IVF, which I fully support and think should be ringfenced, may stop as they’re too costly. It’s sad the way things are going, but when there’s no money, or money is wasted, there are no easy options.

Please can you explain to me what you mean by your question ‘how do those boots taste?’
I don’t understand that phrase.

That all sounds extremely sad that people pay into a system and may have no chance of treatment. The non urgent ones particularly as from a health perspective they are more than likely still needed. Shocking thought !

Just pointing out that the vast majority of ND people do in fact work sometimes in very demanding/well paid jobs.

If the government pursues a high tax agenda and targets wealthy individuals they can and already have moved countries taking their businesses with them so you are correct on that point.

I do believe the welfare system needs reforming but we absolutely do need a safety net for those who are too ill/disabled to work.

We need our company tax rate to be attractive enough to encourage businesses to start up. Rachel Reeves made a catastrophic error putting up NI for employers making it more expensive to hire people.

Increasing defence spending, not reducing welfare or pensioners benefits and investing in education and NHS will all cost and it will need to come from somewhere. I can’t help feeling though that the civil service is a huge beurocratic behemoth which could be cut back drastically. The shutting of over 200 quangos in the NHS is a good start. Let’s see them do that in the civil service and local government. That should save a bit.

On Radio 4 I was listening to a programme on the parlous state of the NHS with two chief executives of health trusts saying they were cutting nursing staff and cancer services. Terrible, yes? So I went on the website of one of the trusts - actually it was Birmingham - and there, resplendent on the website, was a job add for a Diversity Officer on a salary of £86K + benefits. No words.

I'm just always surprised at how much personal information some people reveal.

I've never even told anyone that my son gets DLA. Some people will have assumed correctly due to his needs and the new car which is a motability car but I just can't imagine going around shouting about it and including how much we get for him too.

For everyone saying that wages should be higher, compared with most of Europe they are already higher. Plus if a business has to pay higher wages then they will raise their prices and it is us that pays for this so round and round we go. The NI increases for employers were tough and we all wonder why everything is more expensive since April.

missed this

• UK Average Salary: The UK average gross salary is £35,828 per year.
• UK Average Monthly Salary: This translates to approximately £2,985 per month.
• UK Salary in Euros and USD: £35,828 is equivalent to around €42,150 or US$46,365.
• EU Average Salary: The average annual net earnings within the EU were €28,217.
• UK Compared to EU Average: The UK's average salary is higher than the EU average.
• Salary Variations within the EU: While the UK has a higher average salary than the EU average, some EU countries like France (€31,481) and Sweden (€33,926) have higher average salaries than others like Italy (€24,207) and Spain (€23,568).

Not answering the boots question as I have the foggyist but I agree I do think expectations on this level should be reduced. I’m certainly not in favour of @Crushed23 thoughts as I’m sure they aren’t either. Sadly I think they may be closer to the inevitable though. I thought for a tiny moment Labour were actually going to face reality……alas those idiot back benchers can’t see past their own nose.

Many people are struggling to make ends meet as it is, they can't afford to pay more tax. Upping tax will push more children into poverty, cause more mental and physical health issues as people work extra hours and 2nd jobs and worry about how they are going to pay their bills.
As it is, too few people are net contributors. Making those who are net contributors pay even more will push many abroad., better to have 30% of something than 50% of nothing.

@Dragonblo

Too many people leave school without any qualifications and are NEET. A return to free technical colleges that teach plumbing, electrics, bricklaying, roofing, car maintenance, cooking etc would make all the difference.

Nail on the head! Also bring back the World leading adult education sector we used to have until the 90's. Apparently there are growing calls in the USA for a return to "trades" schools too as they've stupidly done the same as the UK by obsessing about academic education to the detriment of manual skills and are suffering a similar skills drought.

Agree @Molly499 we need to stop hitting businesses if we want to retain jobs and productivity. Doing so is very shortsighted.

Exactly, people seem to struggle to grasp that if we pay people more and costs go up, no one is actually better off. No point earning 20% more if everything then costs 20% more. Then need to tax people more to pay for higher public sector wages and everything is actually 5% worse off rather than 20% better off.

The only solution, as someone said, is to adjust expectations. For example, the nhs was originally meant to be free for urgent needs, such as hospital care. Now it's remit is so wide, and expecting it so high, that it's falling apart. Throwing more money at it won't help, it needs a complete overhaul, an adjustment in expectations to survive.

I definitely think we should keep on paying for asylum seekers, especially the ones who are disabled. They may never pay into society, but it's good to have them here, proves what a kind nation we are.

This doesn’t come anywhere near solving the problem and just means they’ll leave, as they’re already doing…

This. Lots of people saying other should pay more. Very easy to say. I wonder if these same people write an extra cheque to hmrc every year. Or decline child benefits they are eligible to save hmrc money. Or go private for their healthcare by choice to save nhs money. Very easy to say someone else should pay more, but as the saying goes 'put your money where your mouth is'.

Agree. It’s a catch 22 situation as you clearly outline. The only alternative though is to reduce the bills. The welfare changes are now being watered down. Perhaps when people have to be reassessed it will be via a new system. Perhaps that or something else will be introduced later. Perhaps Labour will backtrack after / if it’s voted in in its watered down version. No one knows. What we do know is that the country can’t afford everything. So what and who is prepared to give a little because all I’m hearing is ‘ not me ‘.