Where is the money going to come from to meet the UK people expectations?

[Pandersmum]

So assuming that:

• everyone who receives disability benefits needs them and may actually believe they should be entitled to more
• pensioner benefits are non negotiable and again many believe they should be greater than current
• working people (most) believe they are already taxed highly and believe they cannot be taxed any more without further impact to their feeling of unfairness and resentment of the system
• it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state
• Mental health challenges are very real in any age of person and therefore they must be financially supported by the state and if in work, by their employers
• rent (whatever level) should be supported by the state because it is a basic right to have a home
• NHS treatment (& the best treatment) should be free be all, no matter how expensive it is or whatever their age because people pay their taxes
• businesses are businesses and are there to make profits for their owners - therefore they can choose which country they operate in / pay their taxes in - if they don’t like the UK tax system, they can move somewhere else
• ’in work benefits’ are necessary to support ‘low paid workers, often in essential jobs’ to gain similar amounts of financial remuneration to those on benefits
• high net worth individuals can move if they don’t like the UK tax system

So just where is the money going to come from to fund the UK population of financial expectation of what the state should provide?

I predict that AI will bring much faster changes, than has happened since the invention of the Internet

For better & for worse

Wages really are too low.

As an example, the average starting salary of a Family Practitioner (equivalent of a GP) in the US is about $275,000.
One of my DCs has a school friend whose starting salary as a newly minted civil engineer was $98k. It has since risen well into comfortable six figure range.
Teachers at my local high school earn an average of $95k per year, with bonuses starting at $10k for coaching a sport or leading a club.

• it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state

Nobody has ever said that. ND and MH struggles vary hugely. All need the support and treatment relevant to them if we want those with either (and often both )to work if capable. 4 in my house that work/ want to work but it does hinge on getting the right support and treatment. Sorry if that’s inconvenient.🙄

Surely US has greater disparity given inequality ratio.

Why not. I am raising a baby in a small 2 bed flat in London that I own and I am luckier than most in my generation. 70% of people in my age group (29 to 34) rent in London and pay the equivalent of my mortgage on a room. My husband got a vasectomy when I was 6 months pregnant to facilitate us living in a small flat and also to make it easier for us to invest in our son's education in the future. Our generation makes tough decisions and compromises and the previous generations shouldn't be exempt. We also pay for private healthcare when we need it.

Probably mostly private rental as it's hard to get a social housing flat.

Ha another of those people who are disabled but are more ableist than abled…..
Internal ableism is strong I can see….

To answer your question @Pandersmum , where would the money come from?
Let me think….
The same place that allowed to find billions of pounds with no issue at all for the army?
Or the same place that found the millions of pounds necessary to implement the Assisted Dying Bill? Again with no discussion or issue.
Or because you’re just so complete it misinformed that you dint even realise you are. Disabled people aren’t asking for more money. They dint want to die of hunger once all the help available has been withdrawn. Because, UNLIKE YOU, they can’t work. And never will.
I mean true, you can ask for AD if you feel like burden so maybe that will work too. There’ll be money for that so 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Yes, and this is because the UK is a low wage economy in which taxpayers (via various forms of welfare) make it possible for business to pay far less than employees should be paid. Those employees then turn around and find themselves fleeced by childcare costs and housing costs.

Moving to a US system wouldn't help people at the bottom, as it doesn't there.

Yes investment is good but historically public sector projects are not well executed. Maybe we need financial incentives for the ‘not for profit’ sector.

A wealth tax would be a start. And an exit tax so that people can't just leave and get out of paying it, as well as a prohibition on non-residents and profit making businesses owning residential property (housing associations and universities would be unaffected). For the remaining properties, everyone can only own one. In the house price crash that would ensue, the government could buy back social housing, slashing the amount that would need to be spent on housing benefit, and loads of low paid jobs that businesses currently struggle to recruit for would suddenly be economically viable for people because their wages would be enough to pay for housing. People with mental health problems could work part time and still be able to afford to live.

I think the answer will be war. At some point, there will be scare resources.
There are too many humans and not enough planet. Probably not in our lifetimes,
but who knows.

Exactly - its not untaxed for the person who earned it in the first place and who has a right to either piss it up the wall and spend every penny or save, responsibly, to fund their own old age. You'll just have even more people expecting the state to fund their retirement and nursing home - its already an unfair system between those that save and those that spend without a thought for the future and re-taxing money will only make it worse

Tax increases , borrowing more , cuts to essential services , hit the motorist , VAT increase.

It’s basic maths really. You need to pay more in to get more out. What has happened is that a lot of people are fed up of paying in and not seeing any benefit.
So many people feel entitled to things but they haven’t paid that much into the system. Examples include getting free ( or subsidised carers) not all older people have worked 40plus years working full time and paying tax and NI, yet they feel entitled to get free care costing ££££s. Plus a winter fuel allowance.
The same with people having lots of children. They expect someone else will pay for a house for them, pay their council tax, educate their children etc etc. I think we have turned into a nation of learned helplessness, always expecting someone else to do the hard work. There are less people paying into the system and those who do are on the whole resenting it.
I don’t accept anyone not working due to having ADHD or mental health issues. Going out to work is often what is needed. You don’t work fine, but you are not rewarded for it.
The trouble is any time the government tries to pull back and reduce benefits, they get criticised for it. So where is the money coming from? Why should the working population have to work until old age to support those who do not work? Something absolutely has to give. I do not think taxing the ever decreasing working population would go down well. Nobody is going to vote for that.
I can categorically tell you that I would vote for the first party who would reduce the age at which I can retire and receive my state pension. A pension that I should have been receiving at 60 all those years ago when I started paying NI.
People need to take far more responsibility for their own life. Nobody should be better off not working than working.

Expectations need a reality check.
There need to be cuts.

Or more likely Tax those in the middle even more so everyone is just as skint.
Everyone is then the same.

How very communist.

I’m sorry to hear that. An unintended consequence. There will be many others.

It's all going to go pear shaped. Labour will be out. Who knows what's next. This all could have been avoided if it hadn't been for the PM and his unwillingness to carry on with doing the right thing.

I think that the mistake is to assume that those claiming disability payments need them.

I know two families claiming a disability allowance.
The first has two teenage children supposedly with Long Covid. They are too tired to get up to go to school most mornings, but not too tired to stay up late doing hobbies or enjoying busy active holidays away. The mother has a job that entails working from home with flexible hours. As the money that she receives can be spent as she wishes, they go away most school holidays or some weekends now. Furthermore she has no incentive for her children to improve and hasn't been following any of the medical advice re Long Covid and pacing. Aside from that, what do her children actually need the money for? The family hasn't been financially impacted by their illness.

My other friend has 3 children with ADHD. They also qualify for some sort of payment or she receives some sort of carers allowance. Again, they are in school full time. My friend works. No financial hardship as a result. Her husband has been unable to work for the last 6 years due to anxiety. Instead he spends all day sleeping and all night smoking weed and gaming. He gets some sort of allowance. I feel as though he is actually getting worse as is completely stuck in a rut. The family now all rely on the extra money and are planning a holiday to Disneyland in Florida this year.

Meanwhile I have a friend with 2 severely autistic sons who cannot access a school within an hour of their house and whom is only able to work limited hours. Both require additional private speech and language support etc. One is also physically disabled. Yet she receives the same amount in terms of payments for her children and has been hit very hard financially and with the removal of day centres due to funding cuts.

The whole system is rotten. Why on earth should people be given money to spend as they wish on whatever they want for their children when they have suffered no financial set back or incurred additional costs?

It really makes me cross at the sense of entitlement and waste.

We also need to start making absent parent’s pay for their own children. Stop rewarding people for having children with any Tom, Dick or Harry. You want to keep having lots of children fine, but you pay for them.

Tax the rich more?!
Otherwise I've no idea.

Obviously this was going to be your take. How do those boots taste?

Another problem with very expensive housing is that certain people get it for free. I really, really cannot see the justification with allowing someone who doesn’t work ( I’m talking neither parent) getting their rent paid whilst those who work are screwed over and working their guts out to pay for it. Totally wrong.

Well you will hate me because I don’t work due to MH. I’m currently weaning of a medication that caused heart issues. That means I’ll probably end up psychotic again. I’ve had about 8 hospital stays in 5 years, many under section. When I’m psychotic I see and hear people. I feel like my body is covered either bugs and scratch myself raw. I hallucinate and think everyone is out to hurt me.
But sure, I’d be great in a workplace!

Examples include getting free ( or subsidised carers) not all older people have worked 40plus years working full time and paying tax and NI, yet they feel entitled to get free care costing ££££s.

Care is means tested. My parents paid for theirs. Your views would lead to old people sitting in their own shit and starving to death. I guess that would be fine in your world.

This is the only way. To pay for everything taxes will have to go up. Significantly I’d say if the predictions for future expenditures on the welfare state are accurate.