Where is the money going to come from to meet the UK people expectations?

[Pandersmum]

So assuming that:

• everyone who receives disability benefits needs them and may actually believe they should be entitled to more
• pensioner benefits are non negotiable and again many believe they should be greater than current
• working people (most) believe they are already taxed highly and believe they cannot be taxed any more without further impact to their feeling of unfairness and resentment of the system
• it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state
• Mental health challenges are very real in any age of person and therefore they must be financially supported by the state and if in work, by their employers
• rent (whatever level) should be supported by the state because it is a basic right to have a home
• NHS treatment (& the best treatment) should be free be all, no matter how expensive it is or whatever their age because people pay their taxes
• businesses are businesses and are there to make profits for their owners - therefore they can choose which country they operate in / pay their taxes in - if they don’t like the UK tax system, they can move somewhere else
• ’in work benefits’ are necessary to support ‘low paid workers, often in essential jobs’ to gain similar amounts of financial remuneration to those on benefits
• high net worth individuals can move if they don’t like the UK tax system

So just where is the money going to come from to fund the UK population of financial expectation of what the state should provide?

I agree.
There are many physical health issues that do not impact people as much as some mental health ones.

"it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state"

No, it's not unreasonable. The vast majority of ND folk are totally capable of work, and actively want to - they just need some accommodations from their employers to do so, and sometimes support in getting an appropriate job. Support from the state would be necessary, sure, but only for the ND individuals who are demonstrably unable to work. This will require investment in the assessment process, given the highly-individual nature of the difficulties ND people face, but it can certainly be done.

As for the original question...it's simple: borrow to invest, with a good long-term plan for supporting that investment so that it generates a higher tax yield to cover the costs of the extra borrowing.

That's the only way this country's ever going to get better.

Critically, though, this needs consistent governance and will take a lot longer than the four years left of the current term, rather than what will actually happen - which is to say that the UK electorate will follow the drama and elect an entirely different government in four years' time, with an entirely different plan (regardless of whether it's an improvement, because "different" is enough), and the whole thing will be scotched. Rinse and repeat, and a recovery which could've taken as little as 10 years will take more like 30.

This has always been the way, no matter whether it's swung left or right.

@Pluto46 read your Durkheim, notably Suicide. There were sociological studies conducted on just this issue.

Agree
Plus invest in benefit fraudsters

To a certain extent I agree.
Some countries do not have a lower exempt level ( ours is currently £12,570 ) and perhaps this should be abolished.
Along with NI payments from £1 earnings as well

This would definitely be unpopular though

Not jealous of disabled folk. If they need support they should get it.

I’m just realistic that there are scammers out there that are very good at gaming the system.
Im angry that the system can be played and it’s very hard for hmrc to prove otherwise.
Im angry that businesses and tax payers constantly foot the bill for overinflated numbers
Im angry that in the space of a few years the number of successful claimants has doubled.

ps @PocketSand you did get the bit that her dc is not actually her carer. She does nothing at home because she doesn’t need to.

@DrPrunesqualerno I don’t need more anecdotal evidence. You’ve made it clear you have no idea and no idea why. So you’re just speculating with no knowledge. So likely to be malicious. I can see why you have not reported to DWP.

Im afraid @PocketSand you don’t like to admit people game the system so you've resorted to insults.

There are many many examples out there. You don’t need mine. People just need to face up to the fact there is such a thing as benefit fraud, it’s not that difficult as everyone on here likes to make out and it’s not rare!

You only have to compare the stats to see for yourself

@DrPrunesqualeryou seem to be implying that your cousin is a scammer and gaming the system. DWP can only intervene if concerned citizens, such as yourself, report the supposed scam. It’s easy to make accusations on here. Report to DWP if you know all the details.

I’m giving examples of how easy it is to scam
People on here make out it’s not.

It has been abolished for some people. You start to loose it at £100k, it’s been set at £100k for 15 years. £100k in 2010 is about £160k today.

@DrPrunesqualeryou are giving detailed evidence that your cousin, her DH and her DC are scamming the system without need for financial benefit. These are serious accusations. They are not random examples.

It does, it's part of the total probate value on which tax is paid.

Hopefully ai can counteract population decline so we don’t ‘need’ so many people which we then need to support.

AI wasn't developed to help society out. It was developed to make oligarchs richer.

I’m aware but other countries do it across the board from £1 earnings.

Guessing not raising the threshold is a kind of drip feed and will eventually affect almost everyone though anyway.

A couple can pass on £1m in assets tax-free.

I didn’t claim her dp was at fault
I didn’t say her dp knows anything.
In fact I very much doubt he’s got a clue.

It's not that sort of a family

I know - not much is it .

I appreciate the point made by Taxguru and Blossomtoes* about mortgage payments being taxed income just as rent is. Was only playing devil's advocate. However, there's a fine line between disincentivising hard work/success and keeping high earners in the UK. We had about 15 years where our annual tax bill was about £250k. We have paid our way and the state has had its fair share from us. We have no objection to that but there are limits.

We will both continue to pay income tax when we retire. Stocks and other investments are taxable. The children have had trusts since 2005ish. The other side of that privilege is that two hard working, excellent brains are working in Education and following their hearts for the benefit of others. Due to the state of HE and devaluation of the Arts & Humanities, DS is buggering off to another Continent at the end of the summer. I am thrilled and heart broken in equal measure. Unlikely that our grandchildren will be born in the UK.

I tend to agree @Meadowfinch . Yes, we were fortunate, but there were other, often significant downside risks--negative equity derailed several friends' careful planning in the early 1990s.

It’s sad isn’t it.
Two of mine will almost certainly leave the UK
Both in the medical world.

If aspiring to do better is constantly taken away from you why bother staying. It was reported last week there has been a surge of middle class Brits moving to Europe.
Like you we’ll be taxed to the grave too. We have links to the Channel Islands and with 0% IHT it’s tempting.

This will be a problem. People leaving as the tax burden gets too onerous.

I think it already is a problem

Only if the estate is over £1m for a married couple, and there are plenty of ways to avoid IHT if you plan soon enough. IHT is an entirely avoidable tax and not fit for purpose. It's basically only those who can't be bothered to plan whose estates end up paying it.

We were seriously considering it. but DH's heart issues are sigificant and while I am good at languages, I don't think I shall be good enough to talk cardio-vascular in portuguese fast enough.

So we shall spend our money on fun, and then cast ourselves on the state for retirement. Actually, we probably won't because I don't want to be the old person in that situation.