Where is the money going to come from to meet the UK people expectations?

[Pandersmum]

So assuming that:

• everyone who receives disability benefits needs them and may actually believe they should be entitled to more
• pensioner benefits are non negotiable and again many believe they should be greater than current
• working people (most) believe they are already taxed highly and believe they cannot be taxed any more without further impact to their feeling of unfairness and resentment of the system
• it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state
• Mental health challenges are very real in any age of person and therefore they must be financially supported by the state and if in work, by their employers
• rent (whatever level) should be supported by the state because it is a basic right to have a home
• NHS treatment (& the best treatment) should be free be all, no matter how expensive it is or whatever their age because people pay their taxes
• businesses are businesses and are there to make profits for their owners - therefore they can choose which country they operate in / pay their taxes in - if they don’t like the UK tax system, they can move somewhere else
• ’in work benefits’ are necessary to support ‘low paid workers, often in essential jobs’ to gain similar amounts of financial remuneration to those on benefits
• high net worth individuals can move if they don’t like the UK tax system

So just where is the money going to come from to fund the UK population of financial expectation of what the state should provide?

But the house price crash in the early 90s was caused by high interest rates, rather than changes in the net present value of owning a buy-to-let property.

The real question is mortgage rates wackering around between 10-15% for a couple of decades with MIRAS on a portion of the mortgage vs mortgage rates of 2-5% for a couple of decades without MIRAS.

You forgot the actual house prices though, it's a key bit plus the wage stagnation since the 00s.

I know which I’d pick.

Same 😆

The current inflation is mostly cost push with causes outside the UK.

NI increases are a factor.

But the house price crash in the early 90s was caused by high interest rates

Also because lending was more relaxed, 100% mortgages, interest only, etc were not uncommon.

Interest rates were a contributory factor as was the over inflated housing market. The main reason was that we were in recession, consequently unemployment was high. Interest rates remained relatively high until the 2008 recession.

The two are unrelated. The government bailing out failing Etsy shops and various other non viable businesses would cost considerably more than you anticipate, there's much better ways to spend the money.

Robot taxes are absolutely needed because AI will likely take hundreds of thousands of jobs within the next few years. It's already happening. Those taxes need to be replaced.

And all of that supports my initial contention that a house price crash caused by abolishing buy-to-let mortgages/banning residential property ownership by companies/rationing housing to one person etc (basically any policy designed specifically to end landlordism) would have a different (specifically, deflationary) impact on the economy to previous falls in house prices, which had different causes.

"Estimates vary, but experts converge on a transformative window of 10 to 30 years for AI to reshape most jobs. A McKinsey report projects that by 2030, 30% of current U.S. jobs could be automated, with 60% significantly altered by AI tools."

Obviously this is the us but I can't imagine the predictions are different for the UK. If anything, the timeline will be excellerated because technology moves staggeringly quickly.

I think we’re out of space now. You can’t really tax net tax payers much more without it just becoming pointless to be ambitious, if we’re not there already.

@DrPrunesqualeras I’m sure you are aware but not mentioning, carers allowance can only be claimed if the person cared for already receives certain benefits. Does your cousin specifically receive disability benefit for being unable to cook and clean?. Seems unlikely as this alone would receive sufficient points. Therefore you are claiming that your cousin is defrauding the system as she does not need other care - PIP daily care etc is based on need - and because of this initial fraud her child is able to claim? If you are really sure of your ‘facts’ you should report this to DWP.

On the other hand your cousin will have provided evidence and been assessed as needing care and disability benefits so it could be awkward. For you. Carers are allowed to go on holiday for respite. Care can be provided by others in the family to allow a much needed break.

Being jealous of disabled folk and their carers that you think are undeserving is not a good look if you don’t even know them but judging family is even worse.

No I wasn’t forgetting house prices which both rose and fell during that period and for which price movement varied phenomenally around the country, especially in the areas of high redundancies, low employment and loss of industry which depressed wages. Salaries were a fraction of current starting salaries.

Wage stagnation since 2008 has persisted partly due to the productivity problems in the economy. Salaries in the 70s/80s/90s were generally aligned to inflation or a bit more in the public sector but in the private sector they went up and down with the fortunes of industry. There was a lot less employment protection than now and the equalities legislation was all fine on paper but routinely ignored in the workplace. Plus of course this overlapped with a couple of sizeable dips in property prices leaving people in negative equity. This was also the era of the great con of endowment and roll up mortgages.

Also no access to pension schemes for part timers, no free childcare hours - the rose tinted spectacles generally gloss over the downsides in favour of some historical land of milk and honey.

So yes, I still know which I’d pick.

Except that the capital gains made by the massive appreciation in property values over the last few decades doesn't get taxed across generations.

You got your answer op, no one wants to change what they’re doing but they want someone else to pay more or go without 😁

Hopefully ai can counteract population decline so we don’t ‘need’ so many people which we then need to support. This is also good for the environment (I think ai is better for the environment than overpopulation).

I like the idea of universal basic income to reduce administration spending on benefits, pensions and tax allowances. I also think work should pay and unless you have severe disabilities you should feel obligated to contribute to society in any way you can. Whether that’s working, studying for the benefit of the uk, or doing voluntary work in exchange for benefits. It needs to be socially unacceptable to take and never give back. Richer people should pay more in inheritance and investments taxes but I don’t think higher wages should keep getting scalped - we should want high earners in the country.

Social housing that can never be privately owned needs creating but it should be a stopgap for people to save up to buy their own house - no one who is capable of earning money should be entitled to very cheap or free housing for life.

i also think the nhs needs an overhaul. I’d be happy to pay for example for the wli I’m on to the nhs instead of a private pharmacy. But that isn’t an option.

So yes, I still know which I’d pick.

Same 😜

the rose tinted spectacles generally gloss over the downsides in favour of some historical land of milk and honey.

Who said anything about rose tinted spectacles or milk & honey? As I've said already it was never easy but it was definitely easier to buy a house/have secure rentals back then vs now. You can scream it wasn't until your blue in the face but the majority will agree with me.

Probably because the majority weren’t even born then.

Although Blossom the tax man helps with rent top ups these days.
Landlords pay for maintenance, a bill that home owners alone fork out for.
Those who have bought don’t have the same fall back in terms of support from the tax man when times are rough.
Theres a benefit but also a price to pay for buying your own property.

I agree with you. Home ownership is harder now. But not impossible.
What I do take exception to though is the batting away of any hardships earlier generations have faced as irrelevant.
We have all faced issues in our lives, just not the same ones. That doesn't mean today's wannabe house owners are somehow more worthy.

Do you mean basic rate tax payer? Because it’s our basic rate of tax that is way too low. Out of kilter with the European countries whose excellent public services we want. The higher rate tax is high enough. It’s the basic rate that needs to rise.

go After people who avoid tax. Invest money in drug prevention and treatment. Would reduce crime and prison population in the long run. Invest in education so that people have the skills they need to support themself in society. Cut waste in public sector and excessive management.
But I’m not a politician or economist so this could be stupid suggestions.

@BIossomtoes Or because they can acknowledge reality?

I think some of the responses show exactly why we are in the situation we are in today and why I say the public don't want to acknowledge reality so governments are let off the hook.

Some people still think it wasn't easier to buy a house pre crash...

Who is claiming its unreasonable to expect all ND people to work?

But like anything else different people are impacted in different ways.

There is a reason only 22% of autistic people are employed and why 25% of the prison population have ADHD. Attempts to dismiss neurodiversity as somehow not a genuine disability are ableist.

I have no idea what gave her ( that’s just one relative that we’re talking about, there are more 🫤) the points to get PIP. She has arthritis. She works 16 hours a week during term time. Her daughter got carers allowance because she was told she could get it, so applied and it was awarded. I do not know why.

Her dp does nothing with their children so she does all the housework, cooking, extracurricular with the kids etc etc. She cleans and does the washing etc. she doesn’t have gardeners or cleaners.
If she lied I don’t know what she lied about or how she went about it as I wasn’t involved in those claims.
She does receive the money though for both PIP and carers allowance as she showed me and her dc was delighted to get a lower Uni offer as she’s a ‘carer’.

Would you like my other known examples, honestly I could be here all night.