Surviving life with a strong willed daughter

[heartsandtears]

Dd is 7 and as the title suggests she is very strong willed and as a result misses out on so much through consequences of this.
She will lose almost all promised treats and never gets any money, she loses out on play dates, screen time all while her siblings enjoy these things because she simply will not do as she’s told.
This morning for example I had promised to take her to McDonald’s after school because her sister was going home with a friend for dinner so we were going to have a treat together, she walked down the stairs in the school skirt I bought her for next winter which is currently too big, I asked her to put her dress on and she refused and I told her if she didn’t change into her school dress she wouldn’t be going to McDonalds so she decided she’d wear the too big skirt and not go to McDonald’s.
This won’t be because she doesn’t want to go it’s because she will not back down.
I want us to have a good relationship but I feel like she misses out on so much and everything seems to be a battle of wills and I just want to love her and enjoy things together but she just will not ever do as she’s told almost of a matter of principle and will eventually lose out on everything she’s looking forward to.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get along with her and get her to do as she’s told?
She is so stubborn and wilful she’ll happily take any consequences as long as she gets her way.

I agree with this. Quietly create a way for her to back down without losing face. So rather than "Take that skirt off at once!", bring the other skirt downstairs and say "it's up to you, but you might want to wear this one because it fits you properly and it's cooler. I'm worried you'll be hot and uncomfortable in the one you've got on."

i agree with a lot of the messages of pick your battles but just to pick up on the 'it's unfair on the other' concern. Actually taking a similar approach with your other children could also be helpful. IF they are more compliant then they are going to respond fairly positively to the same approach with even less of a fight and you also get to 'practice' on them and your middle child can also see how it's possible to respond. It can build a virtuous circle of good examples.

Agree that hitting is an instant 'no!' but my consequence is always separate, tell the hitter no, send to room/quiet place to be alone and focus on the injured child (so no attention even negative for the violence). Then when everyone has calmed down, talk to the hitter.

I do agree with this. It's seen as the done thing to take their phone away (if they have one, I realise probably not at 7), cancel fun stuff, etc as consequences but I have to be careful with that as my DD's friends are everything to her and are what keeps her sane and happy. If I used cancelling stuff all the time she'd miss out on a key part of her life. I will occasionally turn off the wifi or ground her if it makes sense in the circumstances but taking away her social life would make her more distressed and angry, be bad for her MH and be counterproductive.

I have a similar daughter and my mantra is “is it inconvenient or is it dangerous” and I go by that, otherwise I find myself saying no out of habit and she then pushes back on everything.

(I’ve also learnt seasonally inappropriate are always a battle in our house so I make sure anything too big / too small / summer dresses & sandals in winter etc is out of her wardrobe so she can’t see it and want it!)

I have a brilliant strong willed 17 year old DD. I learned very early on that she couldn’t be told what to do but we had to discuss everything. She had to be involved in decision making, I had to explain things and she would listen and we’d come to an agreement. She’s my best friend and the most wonderful person. I really admire her and love being her mother and it’s just been so much more interesting because of her strong willed!

Did you just say you can't wear that put your dress on, or did you laugh and say that's far too big and you will be so hot, are you sure you wouldn't rather wear your dress today? We are going out this evening and you'll want to look smart.

Hitting is one of those hard lines for me so when my DD was younger it would be immediate removal from the situation - eg take her by the hand somewhere else in the house. Let her calm down while doing something quiet, attend to the child that was hit and then speak to my DD about what happened. In all honesty what ultimately stopped it was her younger brother hitting her back. She was so shocked and offended that someone would hit her, she never did it again.

Are you expecting her to grow that much in the next few months?!😆 what happens when you talk to her about her decisions? Can she explain why she wants to do x or is she just contrary eg. Wants to do everything that you say she can't do?

I was a very strong willed child. My mum would have let me wear the too big skirt. I never listened and had to learn/decide things for myself - and my mum let me. My first born daughter is the same.

I think you're being unnecessarily controlling and a bit harsh to take away a treat because of her wearing a too big skirt. Why does it matter? Did you just not really want to take her to McDonald's?

Incidentally I'm the most successful career wise out of all of my siblings (who were less strong willed) so there's a definite advantage in life to being a leader. I'm proud of my strong willed daughter.

Oh god, this situation needs to change very quickly.

The job of a parent is not to break a child’s will, it is to help them grow into a responsible adult, who will be able to take their own decisions sensibly.

She doesn’t need to blindly obey you.

She may or may not have something called pathological demand avoidance (it’s common with ADHD for example) but whether she does or not, Google low demand parenting. This involves making collaborative decisions with your child - guiding them to appropriate ones obviously - and working with rather than against your child. It works pretty well for all children tbh!

The world needs more strong willed women. Don’t try to break your daughter’s spirit with punishments - she will need it!

Edited some typos!

Hitting is 100% not on I agree - very different to just not wanting to put a skirt on or these kind of “ordinary” refusals though.

Why can't the eldest and youngest share and Miss Dynamic gets her own room?

I think thus is setting all your children up for failure. The two goody-two-shoes won’t do right (chores/cleaning) unless they are paid and she won’t do it at all.

I agree with pp. I would expect teamwork, chores, good behavior as a family style and keep money separate.

Also take a look at “the explosive child” by ross green. He has useful advice about conflict between parent and child.

Can you see how saying “they are good” - with the implication that she isn’t inherently good - is going to do unbelievable damage to her.

She isn’t “not good” she’s just wired differently to her compliant sisters.

Have you thought of changing so that the eldest and youngest share a room?

Sometimes the middle child is the last one thought of as needing their own space but they are equally in need of it.

My ex MIL (who was a social worker before retirement) used to say of my exh that she worried about other children like him who grew up in families where there was potential for abuse.

She said that if he decided he wasn’t going to do something he absolutely would not ever do it, and that an abusive parent could literally have killed him and he wouldn’t have backed down.

Now this made for a very annoying quality in a husband - and we ended up divorced- but I do think there’s something in the idea that some people just don’t have it in them to back down - or at least the parents’ job to coach them into a situation where they learn to be able to work together with others. Not to try to break them, but to help them with coping mechanisms.

So not saying ex MIL did things perfectly but it was an interesting observation on her part!

Asking yourself the question “is she actually doing something wrong/harmful or is she just not doing what I want her to” is helpful. Sometimes my annoyance is because I don’t have time to discuss or negotiate rather than because my DD is doing anything wrong, she’s just not doing it my way.

You are trying to over power her and it doesn’t work so you need to change it. Keep consequences for the big stuff and make it something that will hit - loss of screen time?

The day to day you have to manage her environment, try to prempt situations and manage it before it happens. The skirt is an easy one - don’t leave it in her wardrobe. Won’t tidy up make it a competition or stick music on and dance while tidying together. Won’t eat her veg keep offering it and promoting healthy choices but blend it in to sauce/smoothies so she’s still getting nutrients. Won’t put her coat on she gets cold. Focus on positives , lots of praise, help her feel in control by having a routine and boundaries and letting her make some choices on her life.
There’s a great book called The explosive child that might help.

I had one!!! She had a meltdown one day because she couldn’t wear jeans as a top - it wasn’t physically possible but hey, she wanted to.

As others have said, you want your DDs to be strong willed but it is hard, always battling. Mine is now 25 and doing well in a challenging profession.

The best advice I ever got was “you have to work with the child you’ve been given” (Also - never ground them as then you’re stuck r we both them!). So you know what she’s like, what might set her off etc so you can possibly predict some of the battles and head them off at the pass.

I used to let DD do stuff I knew would turn pear shaped rather than talk her out of it. Eg, she once wanted to wear a Halloween outfit to to a Christmas party when she was about 7. I said “ok” and ran with it despite my sensible head wanting to talk her out of it. She came back from the party all annoyed because the other kids kept telling her it was Christmas not Halloween, why was she dressed like that. So that never happened again - but rather than just forcing conformity, I would ask her “what is the most important thing about this party to you?” then go from there.

on the plus side - she was strong willed as a teen and didn’t do the underage drinking, smoking etc as she was happy to say “nah, not for me” rather than buckle to peer pressure.

The point is, the larger skirt was for the autumn, when she will have grown into it. Mum wants to keep it looking smart for then, not have her running round a playground in it now. She has plenty of uniform for now that she can wear. Ok, perhaps putting it in a drawer out of sight would have been a better idea with hindsight, but an 8 year old needs to understand sometimes that 'because I said so' is an argument in itself.
There is a fine line between 'strong willed = knows her own mind and strong willed = bratty, and I think you know which one she is more right now.

My daughter is like this (also 7), but sorry, OP, consequences like your's don't work. You're entering a battle of wills and you're never going to win this way. She's exerting control (often because of anxiety), and once they are in it they DO NOT have the tools to get out of it. It isn't just a case of 'doing what she's told'.

In the situation you give, I would have asked her once and if she refused, I would have smiled, taken her by the hand and chattered about lovely different clothes and lovely McDonalds and gone upstairs with her to change.

Agree with this, send her to her room when she hits and focus on the sister she's hurt. Then speak to her when she's calm

I think this post shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how some children’s brains are wired.

For some reason “because I said so” is never going to work. And they’ll just end up miserable and resentful.

“Because I said so” is not, in fact, an argument.

its really just the famous bit of novel writing “Shut up” he explained. And just as offputting.

OP
it sounds like you are raising my daughter! She is 13 and actually has ADHD but I have struggled with this with DD. I try to actually be a bit breezy with her and pick my battles but it’s so so hard and I expect my kids to behave a certain way and have tidy rooms and do homework as soon as they get it, but I really have to parent her differently, which in turn makes my 2 other children feel a bit like why should they bother and try as hard as they do.

One other brilliant bit of parenting advice I took on board for my strong willed child was "give me a reasoned argument".

Obviously not for every situation because who has time for that, but used sparingly for the more important things it's brilliant for getting you both out of a no win scenario with escalating frustration on both sides.

So child wants to do/have x and you've already said no. You don't want to flip flop and undermine yourself. Child thinks x is the most important thing on earth. You say "Give me a reasoned argument why I should agree." Tell them to go away and have a good think about it. They need to pursude you with facts and mitagations. You both get some breathing space, they come back an advocate for themselves. Hear them out and you might agree to x or you might not, but it's respectful and considered and there's often a compromise they find themselves which helps you agree. And they feel listened to and empowered.