To refuse to commute with my colleague after hire car policy changed

[BethB89]

This is potentially a longish post so apologies!

As part of my job, this requires monthly travel to a site two hours away for an all day meeting with the other managers in our department. Until the start of this year, we’d arrange our own hire cars through our company’s partner and this would be an no cost to us. There was always four of us who needed to travel and we would have a car each.

As part of a cost cutting exercise, at the start of this year the policy changed so that we’d be required to share one car. Understandable and no issue.

The problem lies in the fact that of my other colleagues; one has left and wasn’t replaced, the other has an exception to not attend these meetings for the foreseeable future due to a personal matter - which leaves just me and a male colleague.

We’ve had three 4 hour round trips now and I can’t bite my tongue any longer.

I drove on the first occasion and he was critical of my driving, when I dropped him home he said he was glad to make it back in one piece and told me he hasn’t been that scared in a car since divorcing his ex wife who ‘struggled too’. Really rude - I have had no issues when driving and no complaints from anyone else.

To the next two journeys with him - if we are driving through a town and there’s an obviously attractive woman walking along he will slow the car down and blatantly stare at her (including a glance in the rear view mirror once we’ve passed). This makes me really uncomfortable and has happened multiple times across both journeys.

He repeatedly comments on other road users and will say ‘bet that’s a woman’ when he notices a car driving poorly.

The final straw was him opening the front windows and breaking wind really loudly in front of me.

I feel like he has no respect for me and I feel so uncomfortable now.

Would it be unreasonable of me to say I won’t travel with him again and will only attend the meeting if I drive myself there?

I've been sitting in an office all day with dozens of other people. Not once has anyone audibly farted nor have I smelt a fart. We have all managed to spend all day together without farting in each other's company. I've worked with other people for 28 years and can count the number of times I've accidentally farted at work on one hand. Sneezing and hiccuping are genuinely involuntary. Farting, unless you have a medical condition, isn't. You may have poor control of your sphincter but I assure you you are not in the majority.

They will lay themselves open to a grievance on the basis of sexual harassment if they insist she keeps sharing a car with a man who has behaved like this. No sensible employer would insist on car sharing due to that risk.

Absolutely agree. Why should OP have to pay for a hire car herself because he can't behave like a reasonable human being?
The car trip is essentially an extension of the workplace.
Such behaviour, once he's established that she just has to put up with it, would probably get worse. So HR needs to step in.

Has your company not heard of Zoom or Teams?

What a waste of resources.

“It was an extremely formal and old fashioned local authority at that time”

Times change.

I’m conscious this is all going off track.

The point is the OP feels uncomfortable, and it’s from their colleagues actions, including the fart. The fact it’s made her uncomfortable, and through things that actually couldn’t easily be avoided whether an employment issue or not, it’s not fair, It’s not compassionate and it’s not kind.

Whether we agree/disagree with the actions, why would anyone want to make someone feel the way OP does.

Yes I can probably count the number of times that I’ve farted at work on one hand too. But if I need to fart I’m afraid I don’t have the ability to hold it in until I can leave the room and I don’t believe I’m in the minority by any means. I think it’s only on Mumsnet that people would think that you can stop a sneeze or hiccup, are happy with threads where people post pictures of their intimate parts and emissions, but clutch at their pearls at the thought of a fart escaping from time to time 😆😆.

As the drive is essentially an extension of work, shouldn't the company arrange for each driver to take an advanced motoring course and test? This should shoot down any misogynist comments from him and inhibit his cruising behaviour. Perhaps an insurance company style black box to report back on the driver.

Yes that would be a start. And if you think it’s acceptable to fart in front of others. Please stop

I'm not sure why you are conflating the two things. Mumsnet isn't a hive mind. I think farting at work without attempting to remove yourself is disgusting and antisocial and I also think posting photos of your diseased genitals and blood clots on mumsnet is sociopath behaviour.

Yoh don’t think there’s a hive mindset on Mumsnet? 😳😳. But at least we agree on the final part of your comment.

It's not aimed at you - I would have quoted you if it was.

I was responding to the OP.

Jackson Lamb is a character in a TV show called Slow Horses. He farts. A lot.

I have had similar each time I drive male colleagues in car shares.
Each time it ends in silence- theirs.
They will go on and on about my driving and I gently point out that it clearly is not that bad as I don’t have accidents but they are likely to cause one if they keep distracting me with their criticisms.
They ignore this and continue until we have a very close near miss.
I then tell them that this stops now, someone could have been killed I had already explained this could happen if their behaviour continued.
These middle aged males then sit in silence like sulky school boys until we get back.
(and I develop an insight into their character I wish I never had…and a new found respect for their wives if this is what they put up with )
fwiw I am very soft spoken so me being pushed to the point where I have to lay down the law may wrong foot them
But it is EVERY make, EVERY time
And these are men whom I genuinely held in previous high regard

Hold it in like anyone with manners would do.

I do have my own car, but am not permitted (by my employer) to use it to drive to these meetings due to something to do with insurance. The management levels above me all have company cars so don’t have this issue.

I would tell your manager you will formally complain about his sexist, misogynist comments and behaviour if they don't let you have your own car going forward.

That is really weird - you aren't allowed to drive yourself to your own place of employment? Surely they can't stop you. What about people taking a bus or train?
I would be standing firm and saying either they provide you with a car for yourself or you will be making your own way there as you do not feel safe and comfortable around this man.

So sorry you are in this position OP. This is not what you go to work for.

I take it that the travel is during work time and because of that your employer has a duty of care to you. Your managers response is typical in that they would rather you put up with it or consider whether you are taking it the wrong way, rather than them dealing with it.

What is his behaviour like in the office, is he respectful? Personally I would have said something to him on the first drive and then again on the next drive, every time he said or did something offensive, then there can be no doubt in his mind that he is behaving inappropriately.

Why has he driven twice, was that your choice or his?

Is this something you would challenge if it happened in the office, the car is an extension of that workplace, so deal with it the same way.

I would explain the contents of your post to your manager and request that either you are allowed to hire a private car or you attend these meetings by zoom. What a disrespectful prick he sounds.

It depends on where your workbase is. If these meetings are not at your workbase then you need to indemdify your employer for travel on work activities if you are using your own car. And driving yourself very early to get to meetings and returning late same day also has liabilities if you crash for employers. Not really thought about until the worse happens and then steep learning curve for employers. This could well be the reason that they don't want employees driving.

He is fine in the office generally, a bit cynical at times, but he’s in his 50’s and often says he is hanging on incase redundancy comes around where he’d be ‘quids in’ as he has been there over 20 years.

The travel crosses both personal and work hours, I think he considers it non work though as he has referred on the journey before about how the travel lets you see what someone is like ‘offline’.

He insisted on driving the following two times.

That’s along the lines of the issue, that it’s not my base site I am travelling to for these meetings.

I think you should go with someone else or else by train. The response you had was unacceptable.

@BethB89 are you planning taking it to HR now ?

Really?. I'm a terrible passenger but would still never criticise the driver like this guy seems to.

I assumed it was during work time as your employer was dictating to you how you travel there. Is there any reason you cannot make your own way there in your own time? Not that you should, but your employer cannot have it both ways.

If they tell you that you must travel this way then they must be responsible for your H&S and that includes protecting you while working with a misogynistic idiot.

What will your colleague say when you insist on driving next time because he is unsafe always slowing down to ogle women and too busy criticising other peoples driving when he should be concentrating on the road?