Family basically falling apart

[UmberDeer]

Any advice would be appreciated here as I feel like my family is basically falling apart. I have two daughters, a 17yo and a 14yo. Their relationship is pretty much non-existent, for example at the dinner table they completely ignore each other. Every time I go out with my daughters, the 14yo would pick on the 17yo, scrutinizing everything she does and calls her sister weird and friendless and wouldn't stop side-eyeing her.

They go to the same school and the 17yo stays in the locker room with her best friend instead of sitting at tables with friends because her best friend wouldn't budge but this is another problem and the 17yo wants to change that. I know the 17yo could sit with people if she wanted to, so I am not worried about it.

When that happens, I would tell the 14yo to stop picking on her sister and look at her disapprovingly. I would defend the 17yo but the 14yo just wouldn't stop. The 14yo is also routinely rude to me and I have tried everything from screen time to turning off the wifi to taking away her pocket money but the 14yo would not change.

The 17yo has told me that once she has the means to she would cut off all contact with the 14yo. I understand where she is coming from and I just nodded but I did my best with the 14yo.

My relationship with the 17yo has gotten better recently but she can be cold towards me sometimes but is still polite. Their dad lives in another city but he is involved in our lives.

Sorry if I rambled a bit I am at a lost

I feel you have come on here looking for a magic solution when in reality you need to do some very tough and consistent parenting to the 14 year old. And no, sounds like you need not be going on holiday this year.

it must be tough parenting alone so you need to have a very honest conversation with your ex to say you are struggling and he needs to offer some support somehow, someway.

It sounds more like you don't leave them at home for a few hours or an evening, if this is true, why not?

You can't because your 14 year old ruins it by being horrible. Go out with your older daughter and hide any valuables that she could possibly steal.

Even if their dad is overseas, surely he can speak to his younger daughter about her awful behaviour. He can't just opt out of doing any parenting.

My approach would be a bit different from most

Praise the behavior you want to see eg when 14 year old is nice and kind, comment on it, rather than focusing on negatives all the time

Positive comments should be personal. negative comments shpuld relate to behaviour eg "you were so kind today" is more powerful than "that was kind". And, "that was unkind" is better than "you're unkind"

Removing WiFi and pocket money are arbitrary punishments. Better to focus on natural consequences eg you were rude this morning and your sister was upset, so I think it's best you don't come out shopping with us this afternoon. Or, last holiday wasn't pleasant for me because of your shouting so I think we won't go away this autumn

Some cheek and pushing boundaries is age appropriate but if other parents are telling you your child is out of line, I'd thiink that's a concern

I hate to be brutal but you need to start behaving like a parent, and stand up to your 14 year old, she sounds like a tyrant. You’re the adult in this scenario, and it’s about time her actions had consequences. Don’t make empty threats, and follow through on any punishments you hand out, you clearly haven’t been doing that and as a result she believes she rules the roost, because she does, and you’ve let her. If she swears at you then you confiscate her phone.

Parenting teenagers is hard work, but you’re making it harder for yourself and your other daughter by allowing her to do as she pleases.

It sounds like fairly normal teenage behaviour. It is likely that in 10 years time they will have matured and get on fine. It's just teenagers being teenagers. Go shopping with only one of them at a time to avoid the hassle you describe.

Change WiFi password and make DD2 earn the right to it.

change it nightly. She can have access everyday she sits a dinner table and politely engages with everyone.

same with pocket money. Split the monthly amount into a daily amount and she earns it through respect. At the end of the month she gets what she’s earned.

To change behaviour is an effort. If she’s going to make the effort she gets rewarded. If she doesn’t ….. well tough!

i grew up 3 years older than my younger sister who is like your 14yo. I was quieter like your 17yo. It’s a horrid environment and I left the country at 19yo because I felt the same as your DD1 - I wanted to get away asap.

I disagree. It's not normal to bully, steal and swear at your mother. It may be recognisable behaviour, in that some teens do behave in this way, but it is not normal.

I have had teens and work with teens - I recognise the kids like op's 14 year old. They are troubled kids who cause trouble (sorry op)

This has not happened over night
this is the upshot of years of passive parenting

You need to be firm with the 14 year old. I found loss of phone worked well. Id alway give a warning first but if ignored I’d do say 2 hours for rudeness and if she reacted rudely I’d add a hour on. She soon learnt to accept the first consequence!
id spend quality time with both of them separately for now so lunch /cinema /shopping etc but 1:1. Don’t encourage them to spend time together. If they want to let it happen organically. Once you have 14 year olds begaviour better managed look at doing a week away as a family but other than the yearly holiday/christmas /special occasions let them be seperate.

Sounds like me and my younger sister. She was/is an absolute cow and for one reason or another nobody did anything about it.

I moved out at 17 and we didn’t speak to each other at all for about 10 years. We still only speak when we absolutely have to now.

I have heard from other parents I am friends with saying that the 14yo is mean.

come again

so does this mean your 14 year old is bullying others too?

It sounds like you’re not giving the 14 year old enough incentive to change her ways. If she’s not motivated by feeling bad about treating people unkindly in the first place, telling her be kind isn’t suddenly going to motivate her. Your job as the parent is to put in big enough consequences that she’s motivated to change, as well as to keep reminding her of the emotional impact she has on others. If she’s mean to her sister remove her phone for the following day. I’m sure that would have her promptly considering her behaviour.

They may grow closer as adults tbf the 14 year old is at a pretty heinous age. My dds were best friends when they were little. Then eldest dd hated her younger sister from about 11 years old. They are 23/25 now and have gradually improved over the years and are fairly close now. They see each other a couple times a month, sometimes with me sometimes not. And message ech other most days

My daughter’s neurodivergence was picked up by high school. Certainly sounds like PDA could be a factor (by the fact that punishment makes stuff worse rather than better. Are there other signs?

Oh for goodness sake. Take the router away. Lock it in the car boot or something and then confiscate her phone.

Your 14 year old swears at you?

Never understood how it comes to pass that parents raise children to ever cross that line. How passive and unaware of future consequences you must be to have that happen. Once that line is crossed, it’s too late for anything else.

Do you have teens @NeedToChangeName ?

because what would likely happen if op followed your suggestions…

Better to focus on natural consequences eg you were rude this morning and your sister was upset, so I think it's best you don't come out shopping with us this afternoon.

”big fu@king deal… I get the house to myself!”

Or, last holiday wasn't pleasant for me because of your shouting so I think we won't go away this autumn

”last holiday was shit anyway, I want to see my friends over half term anyway”

If the dad doesn't live with them then could they go to see him individually and you take the other one out whilst one is with their dad.

Having said that, you absolutely CAN leave the 14 year old at home whilst you go for lunch with the 17 year old. You need to raise both children to be independant adults, it's your job!

If you have the funds, I'd be inclined to go talk to a family therapist because in family systems one child can often be designated the "trouble maker" and then they'll live up to it. It's all unconcious stuff and not my area of expertise but it might help you to see it differently which might change the dynamic?

The 14 year old sounds to be in some sort of pain. Maybe find out what is going on for her at school or what she feels about her dad moving out? One on one time with each of them without discussing the other, just focusing on them would help your relationship with both of them. I'm not sure what you can do about your valuable stuff whilst you're out with the 17 year old - maybe put it in the attic or something, somewhere where the 14 year old won't look?

Lastly, I recently attended a session led by a guy who runs a charity called Connected Families - he talked about handling teenagers and even though my children were grown up by then I was struck by the technique he used in getting them to understand the consquences of their own actions rather than just punish them. He'd worked with all kinds of tricky teenagers - please know that your 14 year old is certainly not beyond helping. He mentioned a website with free resources on it.

This is a difficult situation and you're handling it on your own and you don't say what else you've got going on but give yourself a pat on the back as you're facing it and that takes guts. I wish you well with this.

Umm change the password so she can’t! And cancel her data plan! Calls only.

If she swears at you, add another week without wifi or data and so on. 14 year olds are horrible but there needs to be consequences that she can’t just override.

That is not parenting, sorry.
Ask at your local library if there are any parenting classes being run. You sound out of your depth at the moment, but clearly want things to improve.
Good luck.

You are enabling your 14 yo to be a thief, a bully & generally not a nice person.
Why should she get to go for days out when her behaviour is awful most of the time?
As others have said, locks on the doors & if she does still steal anything then do exactly as you would if anyone else stole from your home - report to the police = consequences.

What is she stealing for / to fund?

Be consistent, exclude her from the nice things you do with your eldest until she gets the message & adjusts her behaviour. I doubt a 14yo is particularly bothered about going out for lunch.

They don’t have to like each other & get on, but they do have to live together until your eldest can move out.

Have you asked for help from external agencies?

So?

No one is enjoying it anyway! Not you, not the 14 year old and not the 17 year old. What a fucking waste of £50.

When that happens, I would tell the 14yo to stop picking on her sister and look at her disapprovingly.

OP, you're being very tame and ineffectual with your 14yo.

You need to toughen up and find your anger with her and give her real consequences.