Family basically falling apart

[UmberDeer]

Any advice would be appreciated here as I feel like my family is basically falling apart. I have two daughters, a 17yo and a 14yo. Their relationship is pretty much non-existent, for example at the dinner table they completely ignore each other. Every time I go out with my daughters, the 14yo would pick on the 17yo, scrutinizing everything she does and calls her sister weird and friendless and wouldn't stop side-eyeing her.

They go to the same school and the 17yo stays in the locker room with her best friend instead of sitting at tables with friends because her best friend wouldn't budge but this is another problem and the 17yo wants to change that. I know the 17yo could sit with people if she wanted to, so I am not worried about it.

When that happens, I would tell the 14yo to stop picking on her sister and look at her disapprovingly. I would defend the 17yo but the 14yo just wouldn't stop. The 14yo is also routinely rude to me and I have tried everything from screen time to turning off the wifi to taking away her pocket money but the 14yo would not change.

The 17yo has told me that once she has the means to she would cut off all contact with the 14yo. I understand where she is coming from and I just nodded but I did my best with the 14yo.

My relationship with the 17yo has gotten better recently but she can be cold towards me sometimes but is still polite. Their dad lives in another city but he is involved in our lives.

Sorry if I rambled a bit I am at a lost

The point is it’s not pleasant or enjoyable to eat as a family currently.. the suggestion is to have time with each of the girls, one at a time, to determine what’s up. And then also try meals together.
For a longer trip away you’d of course go together.

I agree with PP that it seems you have a discipline and understanding problem with dd14. Her acting out - both cause and effect need addressing both through conversation and more effective punishment like removing WiFi, withholding pocket money, additional chores etc.

Their dad live across the continent and going to their dads every holiday would be hard and they cannot just stay home for the whole holiday. She would say im sorry? in a sarcastic manner and side eye her sister

For longer trips the 14yo acts the same way so

Tbh if I was the 17 yo I would prefer to be left at home not going on a holiday being bullied by the 14 yo with my mum accepting it.

Most teens don’t behave like the 14 year old. I do think all kids have a point where they are challenging though and actually if it’s at primary school then they may well be less difficult later. Compliant children get to 14 and realise they actually dont have to do what they are told. Less compliant ones worked that out when they were little and may have already worked through it.

OP you need to sort the 14 year old. In fact the 17 year old can be left on her own for several days and may well enjoy the peace. It may give you the chance to get to the bottom of what’s going on and why her self esteem is so low she is putting her sister down all the time.

Another vote for you not doing anywhere near enough to parent your 14yo. I know it’s not what you wanted to hear but this is entirely within your control and you are full of excuses because parenting her properly isn’t convenient. If you bothered to do it, you’d realise how much easier it is than what you’re doing now! It may sound like the hard option but, if you follow through, you’ll realise it’s not.

1. If she steals from you and DD(17) then get locks on both your doors and remind DD(17) to lock her door when you leave the house. Now DD(14) can be left alone at home - no, not for a week, no one suggested that and nor did you mention a week until the excuse-making started.
2. Don’t turn off the wifi, change the password. Do not give it back until her behaviour improves. If she is rude, stronger consequences. Why is she still going on camps and events? She’s a mean, rude, thief - my mother wouldn’t have allowed me within a mile.
3. Take her phone and laptop. There’s no reason to block the wifi if she can hotspot from her phone. Do you really think making her internet access just slightly slower is an appropriate sanction?
4. Every single action needs a consequence. Every time she is rude, slams a door, swears, kicks off - you take another item. She doesn’t need more than her school uniform and a pair of pjs left in her room.
5. No more “disapproving looks”… do you think the police give disapproving looks to criminals? Does it work? Ridiculous. You say firmly, and loudly, “do not speak to your sister that way. I am now removing X until you behave appropriately” and follow through.

You teach them that certain words, tone of voice and behaviour isn't acceptable at home. At the same time, how they talk to their friends isn't your concern!

Believe me, both my DC can swear pretty badly - they had a phase where it was cool amongst their friends. But they know it's not acceptable to do at home. Home language is polite and respectful. Talking to teachers is polite and respectful and talking to their friends is whatever they choose!

OP I'm just going to jump on and say I get how hard it is when you're an SP and it's all on you and it's relentless hostility in your own home with no back up. I don't disagree that you need to be more assertive but I'm guilty of letting things slide too because sometimes you just can't keep going. All good advice on here about WiFi passwords, accepting that the 14yo will be awful in response but there you go and so on but I just wanted to say I get why you might have got to this point. Sending a hand hold. You might want to try the teenagers board too..it's a little less brutal than AIBU.

Take away the 14 year olds phone/ipad, then you won't need to mess around changing the wifi password. She has to then earn it back.
No criticism from me - it's hard being the only real parent and having no support network to advise and help you. But you need to say what you mean and mean what you say to the 14 year old - no threats that you cannot carry through. You absolutely must not cave under her pressure. Actions have consequences, so you cut off her access to the things she values most until she proves she's mature and kind enough to deserve them.

Is there a possibility that they could attend different schools? It would give each dd personal space and relief for your 17 yr old. If not, can school give any wisdom on what's going on or provide some wellbeing intervention?
Maybe investigate family counselling.

Talk to both girls individually - see if you can get to the bottom of dd 14 behaviour - see if there's any bullying or social issues amongst friends which could be exacerbating the situation.

If it consoled at all, my youngest dc was absolutely mean to on of her older brothers as a child/young teen. She obviously preferred her other older siblings and was just awful for no reason to the one other dc. She eventually grew out of it and they are very close now, so kids can and do change.

If I were you I would be asking your husband to locate back to the family home so that you have some back up. Not that I think you can’t do it on your own but obviously it is hard and why on earth is it all on you to fix.

Then you can only go on limited holidays.

I honestly don’t think that your biggest problem here is how many holidays you, the mother, can go on.

So, when you ask her why she’s doing it she tells you she’s sorry. Then what do you say?

Many siblings, once they get to teen years, don't get along. Why? Individual personality issues, petty jealousies, different characters.....take your pick.

I won't offer you advice except one .....get your 14 y.o. to see a clinical psychologist. I don't believe "parenting" as in taking a hard approach to a young teen with behaviour issues, work at all. It'll create more resentment and the feeling she's on her own, even if that's her interpretation of how she feels. Sometimes getting a professional involved can do wonders. They open up with them in a way they won't do with you or any other friend or family member.

It's worth exploring.

Both dd are thriving at their schools and it would be hard to switch schools. They don't interact at all at school.

I was just thinking the same.

Something along the lines of you better be or reminding her to be kind

Instead I think you should try to delve deeper into why she’s doing it. That’s the main issue here.

Your 14yo needs discipline. Start with the wifi, as you do, pocket money, but if she still doesn’t behave properly you have to find other things she cares about (her phone, you taking her to hobbies or to see friends, hair straighteners, watching tv, etc) and don’t give things back until she stops being so rude.

This is not dissimilar to the relationship between my sister and I. I was the geeky older sis, and my younger sis was a complete nightmare, towards me, my mum and the rest of the family. Everything I did was a huge embarrassment to her, and she displayed a lot of worrying behaviour (even got arrested on one occasion).

Just to shed a little light. My sis grew up, and I moved out, and we became the absolute best of friends again. My sis can still be difficult from time to time, but she is a law abiding citizen with a job and a beautiful daughter (who is a much more pleasant teenager) 😂

In some ways it is good you see DD2’s behaviour with her sister because 100% she will be the same at school, if not worse. She is showing you what she acts like with those she perceives as weaker or different to her. This is what I’d focus on.

I’d speak to the school to see if she acts the same at school and would set up counselling for her to explore her feelings. For sure any rudeness to her sister should be punished but you sound afraid of her.

Is she doing Duke of Edinburgh? A kid like this volunteering in a charity shop or visiting the elderly just might help her see how the world is not as straightforward as she thinks it is.

Your 14yos behaviour is atypical.

My kids dont get on. I rarely take both out together now. It helps hugely.

I do wish there were hormone meds for adolescents...

How is she thriving at school if other parents tell you she’s a bully? Maybe she’d be less nasty if she struggled a bit.

This is not teaching her anything, it's just giving mild criticism to make her feel bad. She will get worse if you keep that up. You need her to imagine how it feels, to consider the impact on her sister, to consider how she wants to be perceived in life, to think of other ways to behave and how that will improve her life and her sister's life. She is acting up to try to get you to parent her and you need to make at least some effort to do so.

If the relationship with their dad is good he needs to step up and help. Take unpaid leave and come to you for a time to help work out what is going on and to enforce boundaries. You are doing your best but of course you can't do it all. No judgement from me. This has the potential to be very damaging for both girls and a dramatic intervention is needed.

Change the WiFi password. Don’t back down. Your 14 year old has derailed and needs a lot of guidance. Give yourself a year to help her become a nicer person

Counselling and get the dad involved, even if he leaves away.
14 year old girls can be horrible with their mum!
Looks like sibling rivalry