To be very anxious about the assisted dying bill?

[bipbopdo]

I’m surprised by how anxious I am about it. I don’t agree with it at all and I’m not sure there will ever be enough safeguards to justify making it legal. As it currently stands, it’s theoretically possible for someone with anorexia to qualify.

It took less than ten years for Canada to expand eligibility well beyond the original criteria. Assisted dying now accounts for one in twenty deaths there. I’m scared that could happen here.

Not everyone has the same experience with dementia my nan lived in that past and given enough cake sweet things and the TV remote was happily carrying on because she was living a life where her husband was alive she went to parties saw people daily etc she lived unfortunately her kidneys failed took her out within a fortnight in a brutal manner

It’s not just about pain - although it’s naive to think extreme pain can always be alleviated. It’s about quality of life. I want my life to be worth living and to be able to end it when it’s not.

But you can't explain to an animal why they're in pain, can't tuck them into a bed, give them painkillers & care for them. The kindest thing is to 'put them out of their misery'.

All of that applies to people in extreme pain. They just want it to stop.

So what do you think their motivation is for opposing this bill??

😂😂

Why are you anxious?

Why can’t we have BOTH an assisted dying bill AND increase funding for palliative care?

So just because it’s not possible to eradicate ALL suffering, that means we shouldn’t try and reduce it at all?

How will this bill cause more suffering to the vulnerable in society?

My next of kin is my sister with whom I'm LC anyway. Any decision I might make about my life is none of her business.

Legal capacity is different to actually understanding consequences my son will say he understands if he punches the door for example it will hurt (he plays VR this happens a lot) he still plays in the wrong spot and punches the door for over 12 months he has been playing VR in the wrong spot and punching the door (i do move him btw) but he would most likely be judged as having capacity in fact social services decided he could decide if he saw his father or not at age 8! Because "he knows his own mind" yes he does but he still doesn't get consequences

Seems pretty clear from it's most recent statement that I can see dated 16 May that its concern is how much money its members will get.

I couldn't care less.

Why can’t we have BOTH an assisted dying bill AND increase funding for palliative care?
Just killing someone is far cheaper than keeping them alive. It is inevitable that AD will not lead to further funding for palliative care, when there is a cheaper option.
So just because it’s not possible to eradicate ALL suffering, that means we shouldn’t try and reduce it at all?
Of course we absolutely should. I don't think that this bill does this, on balance. For some people it would, for others it would increase suffering.
How will this bill cause more suffering to the vulnerable in societ
y?
I'll let Disability Rights UK answer that:

Our focus as a society should be to ensure that all citizens live well. This is not the case at present. Disabled people and those with health conditions find ourselves battling to get NHS treatments, receiving inadequate care and support and having limited access to palliative care.

The UK Government has been found guilty of ‘grave and systematic’ violations of Disabled people’s rights by the United Nations. This includes an increase in the reliance on institutionalisation, limiting our access to basic necessities, and dehumanising us as 'economic burdens' on society.

The COVID-19 pandemic vividly demonstrated the fragility of our rights in the UK as blanket Do Not Attempt Resuscitation notices were used, and our access to critical care was denied. 60% of COVID deaths were those of Disabled people.

Assistance to die should not be easier to access than assistance to live. Parliament and Government should not allow assisted dying when political choices undermine our lives, and rights, every day.

We recognise this is an issue many feel strongly about, and not everybody (including some Disabled people) will agree with our position.

However, until access to good quality support and services become the norm, we believe that opting for assisted dying may not be a real choice, and the proposed change in the law poses a danger to Disabled people.

Why don’t you tell us seeing as this keeps being used as a valid point although I can’t figure out why

This is only relevant if he’s judged to have capacity to consent to medical treatment.

As someone who lost a loved one in a brutal and horrendous way I support it.

As a Social Worker it’s going to be an absolute nightmare and can already see the increase in SG alerts.

So why can’t the funding that would have been used for palliative care for someone that chooses AD be allocated to those who didn’t choose it?

Why do you think it would increase suffering to some people?

That statement you quoted doesn’t adequately explain why the most vulnerable in society would suffer more. It highlights a lot of important points that need to be addressed, I agree. But I cannot see a valid argument in there for not allowing AD for those that want it.

This is a valid point because these are the experts in this area. Their opinion holds weight.

So…. What is their opinion??

I am fully in favour of it. Recently watched one of my best friends die, though she wouldn’t have qualified anyway as the cancer had already spread to her brain by diagnosis so she wouldn’t be classes as of sound mind. My dad died a slow and horrible death from a lung disease. I really don’t think the UK would expand like Canada for example.

If someone is diagnosed with terminal cancer and has 3 months to live, what benefit do you think it brings by making them suffer to the bitter end? I don’t get why anyone would say that it’s unreasonable to want to avoid a slow and painful death. At the end of the day, even the best palliative care doesn’t stop all pain. Sitting at someone’s bedside as they slowly day is horrendous. When my friend died in March we all wished that the end would come quickly, but it dragged out which caused more pain for everyone, and too much suffering and indignity for my poor friend.

Very inciteful & well-put. I am a counsellor ( I have my own private practice) & volunteer for our local Hospice.

I spend my life assuring people in the Hospice that they will be allowed to die with dignity & pretty-much pain free. I will ask about their experience of pain, invite them to tell me about their most painful experience. We have a discussion about the worst of it & I can assure them that they will not suffer that level of pain as they will be sedated if it get's that bad & will be out of it & unaware. We meet pain head on, it's generally a fact & no shying away from it. But we can do things to help with it-even if that means keeping someone so sedated that they don't know what's going on around them.

I've held the hands of many, many people while they were dying, encouraged their relatives & friends to touch them, kiss them & talk to them even if they seem unresponsive. We also encourage music to be played - the patients favourite tracks (I have mine already listed) & encourage visitors to have a chat as if the (unresponsive) patient was responsive. I am certain that they know their loved ones are there & chatting to them..

Honestly the Hospice is the most positive place that I have ever worked.

Tbh we put our pets to death not because they are in pain but because it’s too expensive to pay vets to investigate, treat and care for them, including pain relief and not cheap or easy to care for them at home.

Disabled people, and others, are told over and over again that they are a drain on society, that they have nothing to offer, that they are weak, useless, a burden. They are made to jump through hoops for even the smallest amount of totally inadequate support.
We then introduced a bill with inadequate safeguards, that gave these people a way to end the life that we, as a society, made unbearable.
People will absolutely be coerced into ending their lives because of this bill. That is why I think suffering will increase.

Women of child bearing age who might seek an abortion of often (not always due to domestic violence, mental health etc) less vulnerable than people who are terminally ill. Those people (again often not always) rely on family or carers, are financially vulnerable, have associated physical and mental health challenges which come with their diagnosis and prognosis. So unless the process is watertight and people can’t be coerced by family etc. into making a decision to end their life especially when money is involved, and our social care system is on its knees and good palliative care is a postcode lottery.

In a past role have seen family coerce patients who needed a care home but didn’t quite meet the criteria for fast track / long term funding into going home with their ‘care’ and come back with what we would consider harm from pressure ulcers, so I don’t believe everyone has good intentions and can be financially motivated.

To answer sometime else somewhere in the thread, in a specialist hospice setting, patients can be given enormous doses of analgesia to manage pain if warranted.

I’m not necessarily against assisted dying especially in circumstances and some conditions spring to mind such as locked in syndrome and MND where I imagine there would be greatest need.

But a blanket carte blanche does nobody any favours. Some conditions like dementia / frailty it’s notoriously hard to accurately pin down last 6 months of life.

Sedating the patient until the end... whose benefit is that for?

I feel less anxious about the future as a result. Having seen the way my mother died, and heard similar stories from friends, I am very happy to know that I will have the option of skipping that horrible final stage.

Speak for yourself. When I had my beloved dog put to sleep it was because he was suffering, his eyes told me he'd had enough. It had nothing to do with money and I resent anyone suggesting that. I'd have remortgaged my house if there was any hope of saving him.