To be very anxious about the assisted dying bill?

[bipbopdo]

I’m surprised by how anxious I am about it. I don’t agree with it at all and I’m not sure there will ever be enough safeguards to justify making it legal. As it currently stands, it’s theoretically possible for someone with anorexia to qualify.

It took less than ten years for Canada to expand eligibility well beyond the original criteria. Assisted dying now accounts for one in twenty deaths there. I’m scared that could happen here.

If it ever eventually becomes legal some 4 years down the line, there will be numerous hoops to jump through before someone can end their life that way,

I do have H&W PoA in place with specific instructions. I also have a letter on file with my medical records stating that I do not wish to be resuscitated or have any interventions to keep me alive artificially shoukd I find myself in such a position. But that doesn't cover things like when I lose capacity and my family make my decisions for me (they are aware of my preferences) or do-gooder medical professionals thinking they know best.

I won’t flame you. That’s exactly what I hope would happen to me. In fact I have an advance directive stating that no illness is to be treated if I get a dementia diagnosis.

You'll be totally able to die in agony if you want. You shouldn't be able to take away my right not to.

OP I don't see how anorexia can be included. Although you can die from it, it's not a terminal illness. It sounds like you need help with your anxiety.

There are already people who choose assisted dying, but they are the ones who can afford to go to clinics abroad. There are plenty of people who help their incapacitated partners and family members to die even with the risk of criminal prosecution. There is clearly a desire for assisted dying to be legal.
Yes, palliative care should be much, much better, but some people wouldn't want it even if it was.

I’m 100% behind it. Bring it as soon as they can.

I hope it goes through and I also hope that it is expanded eventually to advanced directives so people who develop dementia and other very long terminal diseases can say that not only do they not have to run the entire course of their illness they can choose the point when they die. For many people this is when they can no longer recognise their family, become incontinent or are violent to their carers. I would like to be able to say now, when I have mental capacity, that having watched both parents loose their freedom to dementia that I absolutely oppose being kept alive indefinitely in mental anguish and physical pain. I don’t think many people would choose this death if they witnessed it for themselves, they would want to be able to say goodbye to their loved ones peacefully.

I’m totally in favour of the bill having watched the terror of someone dying from MND. I can think of nothing more horrific than your body closing down while your mind is fully aware. With a terminal diagnosis we should all have the option to choose when we are ready to die with dignity - and the choice to fight on if that is what the person wishes to do.
Nobody should have the right to impose their personal belief of what is “right” on another person, they should only get to choose for themselves.

I know. I hope that assisted dying would be extended to cover dementia at some point, though. My dad suffered from it and spent the last 10 months of his life humiliated and degraded by his illness, not recognising any of us, needing 24/7 care and when lucid, would cry and beg to be given enough drugs to end his life. Hospital staff used to tell him not to be silly.

I have set aside enough money to go to Dignitas when the time comes.

Yanbu

My concern is that the current rules and parameters will over time be widened and loosened.

So six months left to live will be extended to a year...
Then instead of terminal illness, it will be widened to include unbearable suffering
Then it will be widened to those without mental capacity
Etc etc

I'm surprised how many people are fine with this and how many people assume that the governments around the world who have brought this is genuinely care about their citizens suffering. It's quite clearly a form of population control and money saving exercise. It's hugely open to coercion and abuse and by it's very nature, safeguards won't always be enough.

Oh and I'd also like to know whether doctors will be able to suggest this or will it have to be requested? I also wonder whether the public will be told which doctors are happy to help assist in this task because I'd like to refuse treatment from any doctor who is prepared to do it.

Let's also not forget instead of fully funding hospice care in this country as they should...they would prefer to bring in assisted dying. Money, money, money.

Streeting is objecting to it on the basis of cost to the NHS, amongst other things, so there’s no financial incentive. Essentially this is separating those who fear death from those who understand it’s not the worst thing that can befall you.

My relative was in a home for the last 10yrs of their life, nearly 100 when they died.
They had all the POA, DNR, no extraordinary measures, no hospital etc in place from mid 80’s. But unfortunately what happened in practice was that they’d have a ‘funny turn’ in the evening/night ( never happened once during dayshift to my recollection) the perhaps more inexperienced carers would call an ambulance (for fear of being sued i suspect) quickest way of the paramedics to make it someone else’s problem was to take to A+E, where they'd eventually be shipped off to the Medical ward which seems to be where all the oldies with dementia were corralled. It was an absolutely horrific place, screaming and shouting and worse at all hours. The trouble is once you are in the system, it seems to be virtually impossible to refuse treatment.
They would have chosen AD in a heartbeat if they'd known how they would have ended up. So would I for myself.

But putting aside him and the cost to the NHS....overall within society, if the parameters widen over time and I see no reason why they wouldn't....and I'm talking worldwide as well as the UK, once you start to include those with long term conditions, disabilities, mental illness etc then worldwide governments will save money

Do you believe that politicians and governments in countries with assisted dying have suddenly thought to themselves, we really must alleviate suffering? Or we really suddenly care about people?

The world has too many people in it... birthrates particularly in developed countries are falling.... people are just living longer and it's causing all sorts of cost issues within society... unpalatable I'm afraid but true

Where did you get the 1 in 20
source from?

Oh and I'd also like to know whether doctors will be able to suggest this or will it have to be requested? I also wonder whether the public will be told which doctors are happy to help assist in this task because I'd like to refuse treatment from any doctor who is prepared to do it

But doctors can already discuss end of life care, and should. They can discuss DNR's and patients can request no treatment to prolong life. We SHOULD all be discussion how we want our lives to end.

Ok but could you ever forsee a time where doctors are under huge pressure due to not enough capacity within their local healthcare system so they gently push a leaflet into your hand? It doesn't seem particularly beyond the realms of possibility to me.

My dear friend’s sister had to fly to Switzerland to end her life. She went alone so that no one could be accused of assisting her.

i understand your anxiety and have listened carefully to both sides of the debate. On balance, I think it is a necessary option. That’s different by far to a good thing.

Our most recent brush with the idiocy of current medical practice was DH's mum. 89 years old, multiple painful conditions, house bound for the last 5 years. Ended up in hospital after a fall at home, contracted pneumonia. She was begging to be let go.

Doctors response to our requesting increased pain medication as she was writing around in agony, having been denied her own medications, prescribed by her own GP "Oh, we don't want to do that, it might hasten her death".

She died two days later.

Yup. This.

Sorry you feel scared about it @bipbopdo . Why are you scared?

I think it’s a fantastic development. I was surprised, but extremely relieved when it passed.

It’s about choice. Choose to live or choose to die - it’s your decision. In a- what would be - hideous situation.

I’m theoretically in favour of the bill under the principle of personal choice but I’m concerned about safeguarding and coercion. Further down the line the worry would be expansion of the criteria to include groups who would be particularly vulnerable such as the elderly without a terminal diagnosis or anyone with a mental illness. You only need to look at Canada to see how this can go disastrously wrong.

My other concern is that palliative care will go on being under funded and generally neglected and may even get worse.

As I said I am generally in favour of the bill and I don’t want to see it thrown out but there are worrying aspects for me.

Do you believe that politicians and governments in countries with assisted dying have suddenly thought to themselves, we really must alleviate suffering? Or we really suddenly care about people?

I believe they’ve carried out the wishes of the people who democratically elected them. 63% of the UK population is in favour of it.

@HostaCentral that's really shocking and
scary. I'm so sorry you all went through that.

I’m not sure about Canada but the Netherlands is 1 in 20 deaths are by euthanasia. I think it’s worth noting that despite widening criteria to unbearable suffering there the vast majority of deaths are people suffering with terminal diseases.