To be very anxious about the assisted dying bill?

[bipbopdo]

I’m surprised by how anxious I am about it. I don’t agree with it at all and I’m not sure there will ever be enough safeguards to justify making it legal. As it currently stands, it’s theoretically possible for someone with anorexia to qualify.

It took less than ten years for Canada to expand eligibility well beyond the original criteria. Assisted dying now accounts for one in twenty deaths there. I’m scared that could happen here.

Once again I refer to this comment

I fully support assisted dying and if it’s not for you then just be prepared for yourself or a loved one to have a long, painful drawn out death

Very anxious. I know there are a lot of safeguards in place but looking at Canada or the NL, we know that once the foot is in the door, things change. Add to that all the other attacks on disabled people and upcoming disability cuts and you start to wonder... one of my DC has severe learning difficulties and one has severe mental health issues (depression, 2 suicide attempts). When I see how things progressed on other countries, it's terrifying, esp in the context of changes labour is planning which will make life so much harder for those with additional support needs. I hope the Lords throw it out.

Perhaps the numbers are higher than you would expect in Canada because it’s what a lot of people want?
I read somewhere that the suicide rate for vets is very high because they have access to life ending drugs. Now I’m not a vet but I wouldn’t have thought on average their life is much worse than the average person? So clearly it’s an option that people want.

Refer in what context? And that quote is absolutely true.

I think the OP is perfectly reasonable to be anxious. I do think there are many problems with care of the elderly and ill at the moment. We don’t seem to have good palliative care or good support for those nearing the end of life. I also think we’re not good at judging when quality of life is best served by medication prolonging life when maybe allowing a natural decline with pain relief and good care is kinder. We already have the acceptance that medication which shortens life but reduces pain is fine.

I just don’t believe these issues are helped with doctors (whose first commitment is “do no harm”) being told they should be helping people to die by suicide.

It fundamentally changes the relationship between patients and doctors, and between family generations. It seems very cold and transactional to me, and will change our society in ways not easy to predict.

That quote is basically suggesting you are doomed if you don't opt for assisted dying....it implies that you will have made the wrong decision.

I’d feel exactly the same. My poor Dm had dementia for around 15 years, until she died at 97. And I know her former, intensely private and fastidious self would have been horrified at what she’d become - doubly incontinent, no clue about anything, no longer recognising any of her family. And she wasn’t ’kept going’ - we wouldn’t have allowed it - she was just (physically) as tough as old boots. It’s beyond cruel.

I don't agree with assisted suicide, believe too many people will be coerced or feel a burden. I also fear the slippery slope and the scope being widened.

If it is going to become law, one thing that would reduce the number of coerced people would be for some kind of 'opt-in' to the scope of the law. You declare at regular intervals (perhaps something akin to the donor card when it first came out) that if you have a terminal illness and expected to die within six months, you wish to be asked about assisted suicide as an option. By regular intervals, perhaps every five years.

It's not applicable to people with dementia.

I fully support it. Nobody should have to suffer through terminal illness if they’re in deep pain and would like that to end.

Your maths is wrong. You've calculated % of population, not % of deaths.

Same here. It's a start. I hope to see it expanded in due course.

Wasn't one of them a young woman who had identified as trans and then suffered mental illness? That was very concerning.

I understand where you are coming from OP. In principle I am in favour of assisted dying and would like to have that choice. But it chills my blood that it's being brought in at a time the government are demonising disabled/long-term sick people and when there is a crisis in health care and social care. Also, these days it's quite common for people seeking help for suicidal feelings to be told that it's their choice if they want to kill themselves as they have capacity - which is a misuse/misunderstanding of capacity law - so the idea that only people with capacity will be able to choose this option doesn't reassure me that much.

I'm quite anxious that it won't get through, because I think we desperately need it. I want to be able to end my life at a time of MY choosing, so I actually think it doesn't go far enough.
But this is why we have a parliamentary democracy, because MPs make these decisions for us. We can't and won't agree with every piece of legislation, so stressing about it is ultimately pointless.

I do wonder if many people who oppose this bill have had the experience of watching a loved one die in a slow and painful way?

I watched my dad die, he really should have been allowed to die about a week before he did. The last week was not nice for anyone, especially him and I had nightmares about it for many years afterwards. I fully support this bill and cheered when I heard that MPs had voted for it.

Doctors already don’t carry out certain procedures because they cause more harm. What if the best way to ‘do no harm’ is to help someone to die?

I don’t know the law, but I think that doctors cannot prescribe a dose of painkillers that would be lethal, so where does that leave people who are still in pain with the maximum allowable dose? What about those who don’t have a terminal illness but can’t get enough pain killers to alleviate their pain?

I would think that doctors would have the choice of whether to be involved in assisted suicide, just as they do with abortion.

We discussed this over lunch with friends. Out of the 8 of us, we were all in support.

I think our life stage is an influencing factor. We’re all in our 50s and seeing friends start to suffer with illness - we know people with cancer, some have arthritis. Several of us have parents with dementia, one with Parkinson’s, my husband’s uncle in law died of MND.

One friend whose father has dementia and is in a home with zero quality of life, said she sometimes wants to smother him.

Obviously assisted dying would not help here, but I really think the law needs to change and people have the right to autonomy over ending their lives.

I'm now getting confused. Are you thinking it's to be a Logans Run scenario where EVERYONE is to have an assisted death?

I would say as pp have already stated, I'd find my life to be pretty doomed if I was bed bound, doubly incontinent, and experiencing unbearable suffering that no amount of analgesia could touch.

I'm thinking that those who don't choose assisted dying will be at risk of being shamed, mocked and belittled.

I'll be interested to see if OP comes back and explains if anything in particular about the bill is making her anxious.

I know there's been a lot of amendments, etc.

I would think mental illness preceded the trans identification, and then wasn’t relieved, or was compounded by transitioning.

Yes of course...I've seen many family members at the end of their lives...by a certain age, most people will have. It's sad and scary...of course it is, but I think the thought of someone being coerced into this is equally if not more scary.

Very well put. I completely agree with this.

My dad committed suicide at home and it was beyond traumatic for us all. I wonder if it would have been different if he had a choice to end his life.

One in twenty seems very reasonable. 5% of people with terminal illnesses choosing to end their suffering a few months earlier? Im surprised it's so low.

By the time my grandparents passed, they didn't know who they were. Their identities were essentially gone. Visits from their families meant nothing - they didn't know who anyone was. There were constant falls and injuries. They were incontinent. Their food had to pureed so they wouldn't choke on it. My grandmother was in and out of the hospital as she slowly drowned in the fluid filling up her lungs and my grandfather had cancerous tumors growing out of his face.

Would ending that slightly sooner have been tragic for either of them? Would it have been more cruel than making them suffer every last minute of it? I think the answer to both is no.

It's going to be a hell of a lot worse for me when my time comes - I have a chronic illness and I do NOT have their resources. I'm going to need to find a way out before it gets to that point. I'd like it to be a painless, legal and foolproof way. I believe that's my human right.