Showing support for terrorism is illegal so why do people do it?

[Nowayyousure]

Well we all know it's illegal, don't we?

It happens though. The flags, the signs, the slogans, the chants, what is said etc.

Kneecap was charged on supporting terrorism. I understand that the charges relate to things like waving the Hezbollah flag and shouting in support of terrorist organisations.

He has been bailed pending trial.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4k4xnlj8qo

Do you consider the ANC a terrorist organisation? What about Nelson Mandela? He wasn’t sent to Robin Island for nothing. What about women who have the vote? Will you give back your right to vote? The suffragette movement literally caused terror on the streets.

What is at one moment one thing in the next moment it can be something completely different.

With a lot of kindness it sounds like the Manchester bombings were close to you and thats really not relevant to the conversation about Palestinian right to their own land.

100% this

What countries do you consider democratic in the ME?

What countries do women have equal rights to men in the ME?

And for those who persist in conflating Palestine with Hamas, you need to learn your history. Hamas were elected in 2006 on a bare plurality of votes (44% to the more moderate party's 41%) but ended up with a large number of seats due to the way the electoral system functions.

Hamas subsequently took complete control of the Gaza Strip. A civil war ensued and memebers of Fatah, the more moderate party, fled to the West Bank to escape persecution. The Palestinian Territories have remained split ever since, with Hamas ruling Gaza as a dictatorship. This is not what the Palestinian people voted for in 2006.

The only reason an election took place in 2006 with Hamas legally entitled to stand for election is because George W Bush urged the Palestinian Authority to hold elections in a power vacuum, and then took no steps to assist or improve Fatah's prospects of success (via diplomacy or political manoeuvre). Elections are rarely if ever the first step towards achieving a functional democratic process. They should be the culmination of the process. The idea that an election could be held in a power vacuum in a place of huge political turmoil and lead immediately to a straightforward and thriving democracy was profoundly over simplified and the failure of this lies squarely at the feet of the Bush administration.

Furthermore, the median age of Gazans is 18, meaning half of the people living in the Gaza Strip weren't even born the last time there was an election. They have lived their entire lives under Hamas rule, being fed Hamas propaganda, and facing consistent oppression and violence from Israel. They have had no alternative but to grow up in an environment constantly reinforcing to them the idea that Hamas are the only alternative to violence from Israel. Those of us living in the UK, with a substantially free media and the long-standing expectation of peace and safety, can have no conception of what it is like for the people of Gaza, living under the oppressive dichotomy of Hamas and Israel.

Ultimately for a lot of posters on this thread it seems to boil down to race. Unsurprising but disappointing nonetheless.

I don't think peaceful people harrass diners,including young children, at McDonalds.

The thread won't last anyway but I'm hiding it. All this is nauseating.

I'm not discounting that people who support terrorist organisation believe in the cause. Clearly some do believe that Hezbollah have reasons for their acts. I find it awful that people would actually support people gong out and bombing others at a concert EG Manchester Arena bombing and think that is ok. I mean bombing people at the Ariana Grande Concert didn't actually help the people of Syria (the bomber claimed it was for them).

I imagine then that since it's illegal they are happy to stand in court and say they support terrorism and go to prison. We shall see if the rapper says he supports Hezbollah or not when he is in court. It's probably easy to shout support at a music gig and encourage others but in the cold light of day in court say he thinks it is ok to carry out terrorist acts.

What on earth are you talking about? I can’t tell if you’re being serious or are actually this misinformed? It’s genuinely frightening.

You obviously haven’t been to the north of Ireland then especially around marching season when all bets are off. Inciting hatred towards catholics,blacks, immigrants, the pope, a young girl who was murdered on her honeymoon and Bloody Sunday.

It shouldn't be. "kill (insert any particular group/race/religion etc)" should equally apply in my view.

No it isn't but the long term perspevtive of the the first poster is definitely the case. Israel has had at least two prime ministers who were actively involved in violent, politically motivated terrorist activities before they came to power. Nelson Mandela was involved with the ANC which was a very definitely violent organisation.

What we think of people involved with these organisations is dependent on our view of their cause and from the perspective of time and distance by who the 'winners' were and what they did when they came to power.

The difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is less clear than some people like to admit. This is because we like to say that all violence is wrong but sometimes viloence is called for in response to violence. It may not be ideal but it is nonetheless true .

I am not by the way saying that Hamas are justified in the violence they use or even in their cause, just that some people think that theye are, so whether words supporting Hamas are illegal or not are irrelvant to them as they believe the law is wrong in this case.

The law is not always right - History teaches us that. I would not and do not support Hamas but I did support the ANC - vociferously thoughout the late 80s and 90s. Many of the same accusations were made aginst ANC supporters as are being made against Hamas supporters now.

I am just trying to answer the question why some people support Hamas when it is illegal.

So does that mean you consider the British government to be a terrorist organisation?

I understand your point and I don’t disagree with you necessarily. I think the west should step back and not get involved at times.

Having said that, my concern lays with the people who just want to get on with their lives and live in peace in the Middle East. I can understand the west getting involved to prevent Iran making nuclear weapons as they don’t care about their own people, just look at how they treat women, so I dread to think of the consequences to the wider world.

Killing innocent people is never a good thing- no matter who is doing it!

I don't consider the government to be a terrorist organisation. Legally they are not.

Well, I look forward to your thread in July asking why the perpetrators of the bonfires and sectarian violence have not been arrested and how anyone could possible support a national holiday that celebrates the bloody killing of catholics.

I googled this and couldn't find anything.

Would you mind posting a link? Thanks.

I’ll wait until you reply to my other post to reply to you

Iirc, Abedi claimed to support Al Qaida.

By whose laws? The West is not the judge, jury and executioner for the rest of the world. I can keep hitting you and telling you it’s not wrong to hit you according to my rules as much as I like. Does that make it right? If you can genuinely say that what the West did to Iraq was not terrorism then good luck to you. And that’s just one recent example.

Why should the UK have nuclear weapons but not Iran? Why is it one rule for “us” and another for “them”? The UK has done significantly more damage to significantly more countries around the world in its history than Iran ever has, so why is Iran seen as the bigger danger?

I can understand why the West gets involved when a regime that funds many terrorist organisations in other countries might be developing uranium.

The terrorists in Yeman - The Houthis, also kill their own people as well as terrorist attacks on people in other countries. Usually no one seems to take any notice about what The Houthis do to their own people though. It seems pretty much ignored. The group has been central in Yemen's civil war, conducts human rights abuses, and targets civilians and using child soldiers. Is that also ok to the people that call them freedom fighters?

Or are they 'freedom fighters' when they attack Israel (which some in the West consider incorrectly white incomers from Europe- they aren't) and then ignored when they target their own civilians or what? Or don't brown people in Yeman matter?

The terrorists in The Lebanon - Hezbollah don't exactly help people in the Lebanan.

Hamas have definitely perpetrated acts of terrorism. While I don't support that, I am not surprised by it. History is full of examples of people who have been oppressed for so long that they resort to violence and terrorism.

Do you consider Hamas to be a terrorist organisation?

I no more support Children being blown up at an Ariana Grande concert, as Children being blown up queuing for food in Gaza.

Both are atrocities.