MPs vote to decriminalise abortion

[AirborneElephant]

AIBU to be thrilled! Sorry if there’s already a thread, couldn’t see one.

Basically it allows the pregnant woman to self abort her child up to birth and no criminal charges can be brought. But if anybody else assists in this they are liable to prosecution.. This seems very dangerous and certainly isn't healthcare. Sounds even more horrific than back street abortions,

Perhaps the woman doesn’t know she was pregnant so only takes action once she realises what has happened during childbirth.

I didn’t want to go into the specifics because I didn’t feel it necessary but as you’ve asked several times and believe it not possible, a woman could end her baby’s life during labour by fatally injecting the baby once accessible, using a tool to fatally harm the baby, amongst other possibilities. Rare but not impossible.

Does this count as an abortion as she’s still pregnant so therefore totally decriminalised, or a potential criminal offence because she is in labour which changes things? As you say, anyone having an abortion at say 40 weeks without medical need, isn’t going to be able to go down the official channels to get one anyway, so is there a difference between the two?

A woman who doesn't know she is pregnant will somehow manage to inject the baby with something whilst giving birth?

Where do you get your information from?

Does this count as an abortion as she’s still pregnant so therefore totally decriminalised

no

Don't talk bollocks.

And why are you ignoring the existing women's life?

Yes that the normal reaction of any woman suddenly experiencing stomach pain and such - not to seek medical advice when it start but to wait until you see the head then think - totally rationally and with malice of for thought- I’ll kill this baby

Oh the misogyny is dripping from some of these arguments.

Does it matter how she does it? That was just one of several ways.

So is your opinion that abortion is decriminalised up until the point of labour but then it’s an offence again, even if the baby’s not born yet? Perhaps a woman doesn’t know if she’s in labour or for real not, so panics it’s a last chance for a DIY abortion.

Clarity is needed in terms of what is decriminalised in these uncomfortable but possible situations, however rare.

sorry has the limit to have an abortion changed?

So your stance is that if a woman carries out a DIY abortion whilst pregnant at 40 weeks that’s decriminalised, but if a woman carries out a DIY abortion once labour has started at 38 weeks then it’s no longer decriminalised?

Of course this is not what happens in the vast majority of cases by any means, but clarity is needed in terms of what is decriminalised and these things are not always clear cut.

No. It is still 24 weeks.

Can you link to an instance of a woman carrying out a DIY abortion during Labour please?

I’m not a lawyer but a diy anything during active labour isn’t an abortion

I don’t think it’s really relevant about whether this has previously happened, more whether this is now decriminalised if this does happen.

Looks there is a current case going through in the US, the question is whether this would now warrant a criminal investigation if it happened in the UK or not https://people.com/mother-allegedly-stabbed-newborn-death-letter-opener-giving-birth-11695536#:~:text=Officer%20Melissa%20Yates%20of%20the,to%20the%20hospital%20for%20treatment.

Let me ask it in a different way

if a women in labour has a placental abruption - is rushed to surgery and action is taken to save her - but the baby dies - is that abortion?

no it isn’t it’s a medical emergency subject to a different investigation

so why can’t you grasp that an action committed during active labour is nothing to do with the abortion law frame work?

Also stabbing a baby to death is not how abortion is performed so no idea why you think that’s relevant to decriminalising abortion

Of course it’s relevant. People keep mentioning it.

A mother stabbing a newborn is a different thing all together

So she's going to have a cryptic pregnancy (which only happens in roughly 1 in 2,500 pregnancies), go into labour, decide she doesn't want to have a baby, somehow manage - again, while in labour - to get her hands on a needle containing some kind of fatal substance, wait until the baby is in the birth canal, then put her hand up her own vagina in order to inject the baby (crucially managing not to inject herself), and then pass this off as an abortion? Or she's going to use 'a tool' to do the job instead? As in, insert a tool into her vagina while she's in labour in order to kill the baby?

You're right - I absolutely don't believe this is possible, or something that exists outside of the insane landscape of your mind.

And you think there are enough women who would have cryptic pregnancies, and then decide once in labour to kill the baby, for it to be worth drafting the legislation for the specific purpose of preventing this outcome, even if the result of that is that many, many more women who have still births or late stage abortions face the trauma of unjustified criminal prosecution?

It would seem so. A self induced abortion up to birth is now to be legal. It's horrific.

I agree.

Personally I think abortion is wrong in ALL circumstances save for serious medical issues for either the baby or the mother.

Nope, not what the law says.

Oh dear - no abortion law hasn’t changed in any way

Then you don't have an abortion, your body, your choice. You just don't get to tell other women what to do with their body

It was during childbirth when she started (allegedly as case ongoing).

Those who do carry out DIY abortion at full term but not during labour are unlikely to be following medical protocol, as official routes are no longer allowed without medical need.

Some ‘babies are more worthy than others’ ie you basically accept that the mothers life is more important in the case that she might die ( those babies don’t matter) but they do count if the mother doesn’t want to be pregnant for any other reason?

I have more respect for 💯 pro life people

but thankfully you don’t make the law

you NEVER have to have an abortion - you don’t get to dictate that other women have to have a baby