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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be unsure what neurotypical is anymore

231 replies

rainingitspouring2 · 17/06/2025 12:45

So this is not to antagonise or offend and maybe it could be because I am on the spectrum myself (but this has never been implied) but I am starting to question what being neurotypical looks like these days.

On social media so many of my suggested reels, posts etc are about neurodivergence and also articles in the media etc. Celebs revealing they have adhd or dyslexia. I have to say a lot of it is relatable to some degree to most people (that I know anyway). I have 2 young DS and so many of their friends have potential ADHD/ASD according to their parents. Or I notice traits in kids but their parents have never said anything (but I would just think they were a neurotypical kid if I didn't have so much awareness now) Even some the parents at the school gate are saying they have some neurodivergence too. So I am finding myself noticing potential traits in almost every individual I have close contact with.
I know people say with neurodivergence 'birds of a feather flock together' perhaps that is the case but I'm just loosing sight of what a neurotypical and what isn't.
I'd almost find it helpful if we had traits of neurotypicals outlined explicitly to see whether we aligne with that or not. I am getting quite confused.
Does anyone else feel the same or AIBU? Again not meaning to offend just looking to discuss

OP posts:
Summerseagulls · 20/06/2025 10:40

BurntRaisin · 20/06/2025 09:50

This wasn’t my daughter’s experience. A tick box questionnaire for both myself and school. An hour long chat with myself (the written summary of which was inaccurate and needed many amendments). Two nurses spent half an hour with my daughter. I’m shocked at how inadequate the assessment process was.

Was that private

Thursst0n · 20/06/2025 10:56

BurntRaisin · 20/06/2025 09:50

This wasn’t my daughter’s experience. A tick box questionnaire for both myself and school. An hour long chat with myself (the written summary of which was inaccurate and needed many amendments). Two nurses spent half an hour with my daughter. I’m shocked at how inadequate the assessment process was.

Nurses can’t diagnose autism.

ImpPeril · 20/06/2025 11:31

Thursst0n · 20/06/2025 07:29

Well you are being ridiculously unreasonable. A lack of confidence is not autism. The bar is set high to get an autism diagnosis and it’s a protected disability for a reason. Autistic people have all the struggles NT have WITH autism and often sensory processing and ADHD on top. The masking you describe is hugely unhelpful for autism people and can often lead to big mental health struggles.

This is really simplistic. Autistic people will not have all the struggles that 'NT' people have because it rudely assumes that neither Autistic people or NT people are full of individuals who all have different personalities, circumstances, and struggles. Whether one has greater struggles than the other may be generalised but it is not true that all Autistic people have greater struggles than all NT people or that an Autistic person will have at least all of the struggles that another named NT person has. This suggestion is damaging to both Autistic and NT people.

And fyi, masking is also very common (and also mentally damaging when sustained) for neurotypical people as well. Not for everyone and in general not as much but there are plenty of people who have to or choose to (normally due to societal pressure) change their personality profile to meet a situation that they are in. This is no way takes away from what Autistic and other neurodiverse people face but it is narrow-minded and unkind to suggest that they are the only people who face certain difficulties as a rule.

Perhaps this is one reason so many people who may be 'borderline' seek a diagnosis - so that their struggles are not instantly dismissed.

BurntRaisin · 20/06/2025 13:31

Thursst0n · 20/06/2025 10:56

Nurses can’t diagnose autism.

She was assessed by two nurses and diagnosed by someone she’d never seen

BurntRaisin · 20/06/2025 13:32

Summerseagulls · 20/06/2025 10:40

Was that private

No, NHS.

WhichWayThrough · 20/06/2025 14:39

BurntRaisin · 20/06/2025 13:31

She was assessed by two nurses and diagnosed by someone she’d never seen

I find this very, very difficult to believe, but if this is true should raise this as an issue. My friend is a speech and language specialist and works on an NHS team assessing autism. Every child getting an assessment sees a psychologist and a speech and language therapist at the very least and that has been in 3 different NHS trusts that she’s worked in. Many also see a psychiatrist, paediatrician, occupational therapist etc depending on the case.

Mu own experience is seeing a couple of different psychologists and a speech and language therapist between 5 different appointments. Everyone else I know that has been through it has had a similar experience.

Summerseagulls · 20/06/2025 14:42

BurntRaisin · 20/06/2025 13:31

She was assessed by two nurses and diagnosed by someone she’d never seen

Not my experience or the people I know who had a diagnosis in the family .
All sounds very odd

WanderleyWagon · 20/06/2025 14:43

My understanding is that part of the difference is in what the impact is on your daily life and functioning. So a big deficit in, say, executive function that would make a person unreliable or disorganised to the extent of losing jobs, relationships, friendships etc. would be an indicator, and so would a large concentration of different traits which, individually, wouldn't trigger a diagnosis
(Should say am diagnosed, but recently, and still learning about it all).

crackofdoom · 20/06/2025 14:45

TeenLifeMum · 17/06/2025 12:58

Apparently losing your keys is a sign you’re nd… there are people who don’t lose their keys?

The list of perfectly normal behaviours that are attributed to nd undermines and diminishes the challenges nd people face imo.

Well that depends rather. I'm autistic and I never lose my keys. They're always in a very tightly defined place.

Systems are very important, don't you know 😆

Echobelly · 20/06/2025 14:46

It's not an unreasonable question, speaking as someone from wider family with variously diagnosed/undiagnosed neurodivergent people.

DH and I quite like a friend's comment (he is diagnosed ADHD) that neurotypical people are people who like Eastenders and football and not really interested in anything else. Not meant snarkily, but I think he's kind of on to something somehow. Doubtless some posters will come here to say they/their family member is ND and they like football and/or Eastenders though.

10storeylovesong · 20/06/2025 14:56

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

10storeylovesong · 20/06/2025 14:58

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

WhichWayThrough · 20/06/2025 15:09

Also, it’s important to remember that lots of people talk all sorts of shit all over social media and it’s best not to put too much weight on what they say. They’re not the experts who make up teams diagnosing ND who have spent years training and have actual experience. Those are the only ones you should listen to. Some experts or others may say some things can be indicators/traits of ND on SM which can be helpful, but as with anything medical, they would advise seeking a professional opinion, and as I said, everyone I know who has been assessed have found the assessment to be very thorough.
A few people who know nothing other than what they read on SM say things like ‘anyone can get a diagnosis’ or ‘everyone is ND nowadays’, which is very telling in itself. They are ignorant and uneducated, but like all armchair experts, they think they know everything from a bit of time on SM.

HornungTheHelpful · 20/06/2025 15:27

Echobelly · 20/06/2025 14:46

It's not an unreasonable question, speaking as someone from wider family with variously diagnosed/undiagnosed neurodivergent people.

DH and I quite like a friend's comment (he is diagnosed ADHD) that neurotypical people are people who like Eastenders and football and not really interested in anything else. Not meant snarkily, but I think he's kind of on to something somehow. Doubtless some posters will come here to say they/their family member is ND and they like football and/or Eastenders though.

It may not have been intended to be snarky but it’s hugely reductive and simply inaccurate. “Liking Eastenders and football” has nothing to do with whether you are ND or NT.

TeenLifeMum · 20/06/2025 16:02

crackofdoom · 20/06/2025 14:45

Well that depends rather. I'm autistic and I never lose my keys. They're always in a very tightly defined place.

Systems are very important, don't you know 😆

I agree - this is why my husband can always find my keys as they are in the basket where they live. Whether he puts them back is another thing! Usually found in his pockets when “lost” and he’ll even comment I lose my keys a lot… it’s his fault! I might need to live on my own and just have husband and dc over to visit.

CowboyJoanna · 20/06/2025 16:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BethDuttonYeHaw · 20/06/2025 16:16

It’s a spectrum which means that no two ND look at the same.

your question can’t be answered.

people don’t all sit in neatly labelled boxes

Thursst0n · 20/06/2025 16:32

BurntRaisin · 20/06/2025 13:32

No, NHS.

Well sorry I just don’t believe you. All of our diagnoses were through the nhs:- re my dc info from professionals working with them, then for all of us :-massive personal development forms, 2x3 hour sessions with 2 diagnosticians( nurses aren’t on the list for that) and a family member, ADOS, feedback session and then put under the trusts autism team.

stargirl1701 · 20/06/2025 16:36

I would say, after 25 years of teaching children, it’s about 15% of the population. That’s been stable for the length of my career. That’s higher than most people realise, I think, but still a minority of humans.

HornungTheHelpful · 20/06/2025 16:44

CheekyBeaker · 20/06/2025 04:07

For me, my later-in-life ADHD diagnosis has been a revelation.

I'm naturally very intelligent (I've only tried one proper IQ test, which placed me towards the top end of the 99.9% percentile). As a primary aged child, I excelled, to the point where I had some involvement with the local university and had a contribution to a class draw signficant praise from a prominent scientist, before they realized it was coming from a 10 year old and not a physics undergrad.

As I went through secondary and tertiary education though, I went from being outstanding among my peers to "very good", due to a lack of focus. While my (still high) grades meant I didnt attract too much negative feedback, I did draw a lot of criticism in secondary for my perceived low-effort, and by the time I was at university, I was plagued by chronic insomnia and intrusive thoughts.

My perceived attitude drew heavy criticism at times, and I couldn't even understand why I had so much difficulty turning up, paying attention, or sitting down to read or write something. I got through with a combination of taking every possible shortcut (save for cheating) and short, concentrated bursts of studying.

Ultimately I ended up in a well-respected profession where I've progressed reasonably well, but where I had to make career decisions that required as little output from me as possible. While I could outperform my most senior colleagues in more cerebral areas (giving me a lot of value), I really struggled with "the grind" and had to be in-office for long hours, often 7 days per week to (in short bursts) to produce the same amount of work as my colleagues.

Outside of work, not only was self-care a challenge, and not only might I forget to attend appointments (or even important social events) but I'd frequently jeapordize my personal safety (accidentally starting numerous housefires after not turning things off, being one example).

I blamed myself for a long time, vowed to turn over a new leaf with such frequency, but didn't get any better.

Finally, a coworker said/asked - "you know you have ADHD, right?" and I ultimately was diagnosed.

With medication, my ability to focus and my executive function notably improved. Some things that I used to try to strain hard to remember (to the point of repeating what I needed to do out-loud, again and again), only to still forget, are now near effortless. I was able to discover and implement some coping strategies, and my employer made a couple of adjustments (making me far more profitable to have around).

I'm not complaining about my lot in life by any stretch. Other people have different struggles, some far more profound. Given, though, the vast improvements to my life since being diagnosed (and medicated), of course I wish it had happened decades earlier, and of course I sometimes wonder how things may have turned out if it had.

All to say, "pathologizing it" has been extremely helpful, in terms of improvement and mitigation.

Your "high-functioning shortness" example isn't a good one. A shorter person will understand why they have so much difficulty reaching high things. Their teachers and colleagues will not need to have it explained to them that their shorter colleague might have some difficulties reaching high things and that an aide or adjustment might be needed.

Your argument is more like saying that someone who has some hearing ability, and who can function day-to-day largely due to their excellent lip reading skills, but notices that they struggle in various other contexts, wouldn't benefit from getting a hearing test which revealed moderate-high levels of hearing loss (leading to a hearing aide being prescribed and some workplace and social adjustments).

Notwithstanding your claimed top 0.1% IQ I am going to, as I have with others, respectfully disagree with you on pretty much everything. Your initial claim is of being outstanding in your earlier education but then slipping, which you seem to attribute to your ND. But how do you know that this wasn’t because you simply topped out at that level? Happens to all of us sadly, ND and NT alike.

You seem to believe that you have “underperformed” because of your ADHD but in reality there is nothing to support a correlation, let alone causation of, success by reference to IQ once you get over - if I recall correctly - an IQ of 120. Many people with high and exceptionally high IQs, including NT people with high IQs, live very average lives. They can all point to something - their origins, their neuro-processing capabilities, their people skills - that has been a weakness resulting in them doing less well than they might otherwise have done. To take it to ridiculous extremes, had I been both tall and beautiful I could have been a super model. But my high functioning shortness and ugliness has meant my modelling career has sadly been far less successful because of these deficits.

What I don’t think anyone has answered, is what scale you propose to judge conditions on other than ability to function? So I keep coming back to if you are high functioning and managing life, why does ND matter? You cite access to drug treatment as a reason for this, but your treatment appears to treat lack of attention (not exclusive to the ND and Ritalin works for NT people - hence the trade in it for exams) and for your mental health. Treatment of anxiety/depression is the same in ND and NT people. So other than your belief that you are impaired because you think you should have done better in life (a very human belief btw) what is the problem?

And I think height is a great analogy. I don’t know why I’m shorter than average - could be genetics, nutrition, illness. But the solution is still the same - stand on something. The solutions available to your difficulties are the same - whether caused by ND or something else (for example I struggle with focus due to a hormonal condition but any therapeutic solutions are what you’d be offered for ADHD). So if you are functioning, which it seems like you were, why does ADHD matter? Other than your apparent belief that you should have achieved more, I’m not sure there’s anything.

ImpPeril · 20/06/2025 16:54

Another question posts in this threads have raised for me.

Should the 'bar' be functioning or functioning well?

Naturally some people will have such severe symptoms that 'only' functioning would be a much desired outcome but it shouldn't be a race to the bottom and if diagnosis and any treatment/support allowed someone to move from functioning to functioning well isn't that something to be encouraged?

HornungTheHelpful · 20/06/2025 18:01

WhichWayThrough · 20/06/2025 04:15

Yep. It’s just more goady ND nonsense. The language used is a dead giveaway.

I really take exception at this. What language is a dead giveaway? I have no problem with ND, diagnoses, treatment or funding. I’ve asked for reasoned answers to my questions. If you can’t do that your options are to consider that you might be wrong, and see if someone else has a reasoned response.

I’m here with a genuinely open mind; nothing I have read has yet convinced me that the questions I am asking are not valid ones we should be asking.

In terms of what I do object to about the narrative of some of the ND people on this thread is that they seem to be convinced of one or more of the following:

  • ND makes them better than other people, and if only they’d been treated at the “right” time they would have been a truly special gift to humanity. I’m unconvinced that is the case for all, if any, ND person on this thread
  • That their version of “hard” is somehow worse than an NT’s version of “hard”, yet at the same time being convinced that no NT person can possibly comprehend what they are going through. Both can’t be true (and in fact I think neither is).

So I come back to, if functional ability is not the objective measure of impairment, what is?

HornungTheHelpful · 20/06/2025 18:19

BethDuttonYeHaw · 20/06/2025 16:16

It’s a spectrum which means that no two ND look at the same.

your question can’t be answered.

people don’t all sit in neatly labelled boxes

Edited

It’s a spectrum which means that no two ND people look at the same.

Fixed it for you.

CheekyBeaker · 20/06/2025 18:56

HornungTheHelpful · 20/06/2025 16:44

Notwithstanding your claimed top 0.1% IQ I am going to, as I have with others, respectfully disagree with you on pretty much everything. Your initial claim is of being outstanding in your earlier education but then slipping, which you seem to attribute to your ND. But how do you know that this wasn’t because you simply topped out at that level? Happens to all of us sadly, ND and NT alike.

You seem to believe that you have “underperformed” because of your ADHD but in reality there is nothing to support a correlation, let alone causation of, success by reference to IQ once you get over - if I recall correctly - an IQ of 120. Many people with high and exceptionally high IQs, including NT people with high IQs, live very average lives. They can all point to something - their origins, their neuro-processing capabilities, their people skills - that has been a weakness resulting in them doing less well than they might otherwise have done. To take it to ridiculous extremes, had I been both tall and beautiful I could have been a super model. But my high functioning shortness and ugliness has meant my modelling career has sadly been far less successful because of these deficits.

What I don’t think anyone has answered, is what scale you propose to judge conditions on other than ability to function? So I keep coming back to if you are high functioning and managing life, why does ND matter? You cite access to drug treatment as a reason for this, but your treatment appears to treat lack of attention (not exclusive to the ND and Ritalin works for NT people - hence the trade in it for exams) and for your mental health. Treatment of anxiety/depression is the same in ND and NT people. So other than your belief that you are impaired because you think you should have done better in life (a very human belief btw) what is the problem?

And I think height is a great analogy. I don’t know why I’m shorter than average - could be genetics, nutrition, illness. But the solution is still the same - stand on something. The solutions available to your difficulties are the same - whether caused by ND or something else (for example I struggle with focus due to a hormonal condition but any therapeutic solutions are what you’d be offered for ADHD). So if you are functioning, which it seems like you were, why does ADHD matter? Other than your apparent belief that you should have achieved more, I’m not sure there’s anything.

I really was not functioning very well, for large periods of time. I scaled back my original post because it felt self-indulgently long, but I'll try to explain a little more.

Initially, as a teenager, it was mild stuff like losing things with an unusual degree of frequency, to the point where it was a bit of a running joke as between friends. Of course, losing your bank card, drivers license or whatever else, even if it is 10+ times per year, is a pain but probably doesn't render you "non functioning".

By my later teens though to my 20s, though, the most challenging standalone symptom was the insomnia. It would not be unusual for me to go 2 or 3 consecutive nights without sleep. I would be exhausted, I would want to sleep, I would adopt good sleep hygiene practices, I sought conventional and not conventional treatments but my brain would just race and race, even if I didn't feel particularly stressed about anything.

It was one of the primary drivers of my extremely low attendance, caused me to become socially withdrawn and made me decide to prolong my time in higher education (because I didnt see how I would be able to hold down a 9-5 job). I can say with comfort that I had the lowest attendance on every course I undertook. It wasnt just insomnia, it was also an inability to stick to a timetable (forgetting classes, or going to the wrong place at the wrong time). I can promise you that I wanted to be present, to apply myself, to attend social events, but one way or another, I would fail to.

Housemates and the friends I did maintain would find me frustrating to live with, as my disorganization was extreme. I found it embarrassing, but would make the same mistakes again and again.

When I started living indecently, the personal safety aspect of it became a concern. Things like leaving the stove turned or iron turned on (starting multiple fires - to the point I stopped using those appliances), failing to lock the door (or locking myself out, needing to make out of hours calls to my landlord or call a locksmith. Frequently arriving late at work (a constant source of negative feedback and once, job loss).

One of the reasons for my excessive and repeated lateness was that, so frequent were my instances of forgetting to turn something off, or lock something, that I started to find obsessive compulsive thoughts a huge challenge. Leaving the house often became a 30-60 minute ordeal, in that I would check everything, leave, but then wouldn't be able to remember with confidence that I had turned things off or locked things, so would turn around and go back home, and check everything again. I was, though, so doubtful of my memory that I would often find myself going back multiple times in a morning.

I tried various coping strategies but did actually find one that worked for me, with the advent of camera phones (basically, being able to video myself going through the "leaving the house" checks, which i did for about a decade).

I stopped driving because my inattentiveness also made me unsafe. I didnt race around or anything, it would be stuff like stopping at a red light then, for whatever reason, absent mindedly starting off again, with the lights still on red.

I mentioned it a few pages back but (to me) an illustrative example relates to a much loved pet. I'm hyper focused on my pets (don't shut up about them, despite how much I can tell nobody cares). To the extent I am focused on anything, it ks their well-being. When one was sick, and needed medication (which needed to be kept in the fridge), I ruined 4 bottles (by leaving them out) in 5 days - despite straining to remember (even repeating, aloud "meds go back in the fridge" on loop, only for the thought to drop out of my head). Each time, I had to take time out of work to buy a replacement bottle. It was actually this - and the fact that it is representative of many other day to day tasks- that prompted a colleague to "diagnose" me.

I do wish I could have my colleagues post on here because, even with medication, the frequency with which I lose my key or my pass is a constant source of frustration and inconvenience to others. I likely account for 95%+ of instances accross the team. A lanyard has recently been imposed, to cut down on how frequently i have to disturb others outside of office hours. Colleagues have also made reminder posters for my door and, the last person to leave before me each day (I'm usually last out) will always come to check if I have my keys.

And yet, my persistent lateness, disorganization, constant admin backlog and alike is (sometimes, through gritted teeth) tolerated, because I'm very strong at my strengths.

What scale would I propose? I don't know, but I can tell you that my inability to reliably complete simple actions, and keep track of belongings, has been a constant source of criticism and frustration from friends, family members and coworkers. If 100s of people all tell you that you are extremely deficient in an area, and that they've never met anyone worse, then (1) they are clearly judging me by some set of criteria, and (2) it'd be strange for me to to take heed.

As mentioned, the diagnosis has mattered in that its encouraged my employer and I to find accommodations. It also helps my self esteem (as, to, does my improvement on medication). It has also improved my self esteem because I can better understand my persistent and embarrassing failures at the basic aspects of day to day living, despite being able to easily perform very complex tasks.

BurntRaisin · 20/06/2025 18:58

Thursst0n · 20/06/2025 16:32

Well sorry I just don’t believe you. All of our diagnoses were through the nhs:- re my dc info from professionals working with them, then for all of us :-massive personal development forms, 2x3 hour sessions with 2 diagnosticians( nurses aren’t on the list for that) and a family member, ADOS, feedback session and then put under the trusts autism team.

You don’t have to believe me. But I seriously wish we’d had that level of involvement! What we’ve had is farcical!