To be unsure what neurotypical is anymore

[rainingitspouring2]

So this is not to antagonise or offend and maybe it could be because I am on the spectrum myself (but this has never been implied) but I am starting to question what being neurotypical looks like these days.

On social media so many of my suggested reels, posts etc are about neurodivergence and also articles in the media etc. Celebs revealing they have adhd or dyslexia. I have to say a lot of it is relatable to some degree to most people (that I know anyway). I have 2 young DS and so many of their friends have potential ADHD/ASD according to their parents. Or I notice traits in kids but their parents have never said anything (but I would just think they were a neurotypical kid if I didn't have so much awareness now) Even some the parents at the school gate are saying they have some neurodivergence too. So I am finding myself noticing potential traits in almost every individual I have close contact with.
I know people say with neurodivergence 'birds of a feather flock together' perhaps that is the case but I'm just loosing sight of what a neurotypical and what isn't.
I'd almost find it helpful if we had traits of neurotypicals outlined explicitly to see whether we aligne with that or not. I am getting quite confused.
Does anyone else feel the same or AIBU? Again not meaning to offend just looking to discuss

As a couple of people have said, to actually get a diagnosis the symptoms have to be having a severely detrimental effect on your life. Most people are forgetful sometimes or anxious sometimes but unless it's having a really detrimental effect on their life then they won't actually be diagnosed (or shouldn't be!) I think I'm NT. My OH is diagnosed with ADHD and one DC is diagnosed with ASD and ADHD. Both of them it has a major effect on their lives and it bugs me when people say that everyone's on the spectrum as it minimises the difficulties they face. Like a lot of people I probably have a couple of traits in common with ASD but nowhere near enough for a diagnosis as I don't struggle. Therefore, I say I'm NT.

It always amuses me because I often see these ‘what autistic people see’ videos that try to show how us ASD people view the world and I never relate to any of it. Yet you’ll get loads of people commenting “omg, that’s me!”
I genuinely couldn’t describe how I see the world because to me it’s normal. In fact, in my head, NT people are the odd ones because I genuinely don’t know how anyone doesn’t see and interpret things the way I do 😅

There's also the well-established but little-discussed fact that the residual effects of trauma can closely mimic ASD. So closely that professionals go on special courses to learn how to differentiate between trauma and autism, and still say it's difficult. Now diagnosing autism's become an industry, it seems unlikely that every diagnostician is going through the long and sensitive process of identifying possible indications of trauma.

I don't doubt for a moment than nd is real.
I also don't doubt for a moment that some people (who may or may not be nd) use it as an excuse.

I agree it can seem particularly difficult with children, because e.g. this list of key aspects of ADHD:

Inattention: Difficulty paying attention, staying organized, and completing tasks.
Hyperactivity: Excessive movement, restlessness, and difficulty staying still, especially in situations where it's expected.
Impulsivity: Acting without thinking, interrupting others, and difficulty waiting their turn.

That's surely also called "being an 8yo boy"? My friend's 8yo can focus really well sometimes, other times he struggles. He can't sit still unless he's absorbed in say a game on a tablet, fidgets a lot. Will act like it's physically painful if he's bored and not being given stimulation. He's quite self-centred and self-absorbed, but again he is an 8yo boy - what 8yo boy is good at taking turns and waiting, being patient, and thinking of others before themselves, not many! He's being assessed for ADHD. I wouldn't be surprised if he has it, but equally it can come across as he's just a more extreme end of the spectrum of how a lot of primary school age children behave, and seems a bit like a young for his age emotionally but otherwise "normal" child.

I know mn hates influencers but I remember seeing a blog post on how to prepare if you get nervous before talking to people on the phone. It was mind blowing to me that other people experienced that too as I always had to psyche myself up to phone anyone, either for work, a friend or eg to pay insurance.

Another time I breathed a sigh of relief at hearing a definition for ‘overwhelm’- I had just been at a funeral and had felt so out of my depth and out of control and had acted inappropriately- almost like being drunk but I don’t really drink. Having that word made me think a lot.

I disagree. It is true that diagnostic criteria has broadened - thank goodness, given that autism diagnostic criteria was always based on the mainly male, mainly external presentation of autism until recently. Thousands of girls have been disadvantaged by diagnostic overshadowing and underdiagnosis. But I don't believe anyone seeks a diagnosis without experiencing pretty significant difficulties. The NHS waiting lists are too long and it costs a fortune for private diagnosis. There is also still a huge stigma attached to neurodivergence. Who would put themselves through it all, unless it was absolutely necessary? Those seeking, and obtaining, a diagnosis of neurodivergence are doing so on the basis of significant struggles. Yes, they may have passed themselves off as 'normal' (for want of a better word) until well into adulthood, but it was often at great cost to their mental health (addiction, eating disorders suicide attempts etc). The value in the self understanding that comes with a diagnosis for those who have suffered privately cannot be underestimated.

its interesting. I have ND children and I do wonder whether I have ADHD myself. For me it’s not just about ‘losing things’ (to use an example) but the extent and the effect it has on my life. Eg never having the same passport for the 10 years it’s valid because I’ve lost and replaced it 4 times. Phoning the bank for the 6th time in 18 months to get a new debit card sent out because I’ve lost it and the person on the other end of the phone being in disbelief. My whole life is a disorganised chaotic disaster and the worst part is I really really try. I try everything and it only makes a really small difference. I think some people can be prone to forgetfulness and lose their keys a lot but it doesn’t really impact their life too much.

Ditto children. My DC is autistic and it effects all aspects of life- he can’t be in school without a fulltime 1-to-1, he has learning difficulties and his speech is years behind his age, we can’t do many ‘normal’ things as a family as he has sensory issues and is prone to meltdowns. He has challenging behaviour and can be violent if not managed well. So I do struggle a little bit when friends say their child is being assessed for autism when said child speaks perfectly for their age, no learning difficulties or behavioural problems at school and they seem to be able to get on with normal family life the same as everyone else (go on holidays, out for meals etc) without much hassle. I know that children can mask and I hate being judgey but it just seems so far removed from what I experience.

I don’t think the stigma is anywhere near as big as it used to be. It’s far more widely accepted nowadays to be ND and there is a lot more support than there was back in my day. If you were autistic at school in the 80s or 90s, it was sink or swim.

givemushypeasachance

It is such a minefield at that age and with kids but now, looking at ds’ friends that are nd, it’s amazing how visible it is to me. It’s not known in the class that they’ve been diagnosed but put them beside a nt child, even a hyperactive one, and you can see it. I’m so relieved for them that they’re diagnosed, people talk about the label, but the coping mechanisms they’ve learned and the fact that when they come over here we know what they’re about have very much stood to them since we’ve known them

I've posted elsewhere about gender bias in autism, but the same can be said of ADHD. Thousands of 8yo boys like this who "are just typical boys" who consequently fly under the radar until they fail to mature in their ability to exercise executive skills once secondary school comes along.

I have one of each. A dd with autism who didn't present like the stereotyped autistic child and therefore didn't get the help she needed until she fell apart, aged just 6. And a ds with adhd who was assumed to be 'like every other young boy' until he began failing at school at 14, despite being bright and capable with supportive parents.

My opinion is the opposite of yours OP. I hardly see any ND people in real life,maybe there's more online because there's plenty to find there and lots of reels and groups etc but in real life I feel like the odd one out! I have friends who are ND of course (they all are) but I don't meet many new ones! I suspect they don't make as much noise in real life! I can tell the difference really quickly. Most people genuinally are neuro-typical despite the amount of newly diagnosed adults! My whole family is ND, as is commonly the way. One of my children is very complex and needs full time care. I'd love to know more people like us (though in reality wouldn't hang out much)!

It still is sink or swim I'm afraid. Teachers don't have the knowledge or the time and resource for ND children in mainstream classes of 30+.

I personally only have experience of mental health OCD) but I completely get what you mean and my personal opinion is that if these symptoms you feel do not impact your life on a regular or daily basis you most likely do no need a diagnosis.

I think it is unfair for those who genuinely struggle and impacts on daily life to be made to feel like 90% of people have our diagnosis.

You can lack empathy, hate routine, hate change, hate socialising and still not be asd

You can have intrusive thoughts from time to time, like to be organised, have anxiety here and there without being OCD.

For those of us who struggle with these disorders every day it’s a kick in the teeth when everyone says they can relate

It is so bad now that most of my mum friends think thier 1 year olds have autism.

Which is very sad. But actually not my experience when I was teaching 15 years ago. We had a decent SEN department in the school I taught at the longest, far better than anything I had when I was at school myself. I can, of course, only speak for only the handful of schools I worked at. At least 2 of them had exceptional SEN provision. No doubt there are many schools out there without as much.

But no doubt things do still need improving, if solely for the sheer number of SEN children now being diagnosed.

We've experienced the very best and the very worst of SEN provision. I started a thread on here the other day asking for teachers' experiences of training, and it was a real eye opener. Many said they have no TAs, among other things. I think the late 1990s/ early 2000s were viewed as a bit of a halcyon age by many teachers. But state education hasn't received the necessary investment over the past 14 years and is woefully under resourced.

If it helps...

I have ADHD, which was only diagnosed a few years ago. Pre-diagnosis (and medication), I would misplace my phone, keys or bank card probably 5+ times per day (locking myself out of the office and needing to trouble someone to let me in would happen at least a couple of times per week).

In terms of permanently losing/misplacing something, I remember by bank raising their eyebrows when I needed to get my bank card replaced for the 8th time in a calendar year.

While I'm now much improved, I still haven't seen my debit card or drivers license in about 6 months, having replaced both at some point last year.

And, on top of that, stuff like leaving things out of the fridge, or leaving the stove turned on, with extreme frequency.

I'm still sub-par at these things when medicated, but feel more like I'm in the worst 10-25% as opposed to worst 0.1%. Even that improvement feels life changing, and wastes much less time day to day.

My OH claims my bank have a stash of pre printed bank cards for me. Recently got a replacement driving licence as mine vanished into thin air. I not have 3 lol. Given the newest one to DD to keep in case I need to produce it. Even managed to lose passport in Canada- fortunately it manage to follow me from Toronto to Montreal in 2 days.

But as I said I'd still consider myself NT . Just a bit careless

DS was diagnosed with autism 20 years ago and I find myself asking this question too. I'm definitely aware that there are those who really do struggle with normal day to day life and have seriously limiting issues. However, so many people I speak to nowadays lay claim to some neuro divergent diagnosis. Obviously, you can't even ask if it is a diagnosis, or they have self-diagnosed as that would be intrusive and rude.

I suspect that as so many neuro divergences are on spectrums, we could all lay claim to being somewhere on a spectrum and actually that is normal. It is nothing new that some people are highly strung, some people fidget and can't sit still, some are extremely forgetful, some over-worry etc etc etc. But now instead of just being individual traits or quirks they are diagnosed and medicated. The number of kids on ADHD meds nowadays is both shocking and terrifying, in my personal opinion. In 2024 the BMJ reported an 18% increase in ADHD prescriptions since 2019!!!!

I can't help wonder where we will end up with it all.

I have never understood how anyone can be neurodivergent if there is no accepted definition of neurotypical, which there isn’t. We are all humans who struggle, to varying degrees, with a varying set of situations.
A lot of the stuff about ND on social media is just nonsense though quite honestly, and quite damaging imo.

This is already the case; autism is classified into levels 1, 2 and 3. Level 1 is usually what used to be known as Asperger's syndrome.

And who knows, maybe you are just careless. For me, though, it was an issue even when I was trying to take extreme care.

I had a sickly pet, who I adored, and she needed daily medication that would spoil if not refrigerated. Naturally, I kept leaving it out to the fridge, meaning I'd have to go back to the vets for a replacement prescription.

I would genuinely strain to take care (since my pet meant the world to me) but, even, if I was repeating to myself, aloud, "meds back in the fridge, meds back in the fridge, meds back in the fridge", and/or setting reminder alarms, I would end up leaving then out.

When my DP was away for 5 days, so I had to manage solo. I spoiled 4 batches of the same meds.

I am exceptionally good at a lot of things but was just absolutely fucking abysmal at day-to-day life, even when I was trying extremely hard to be organized. I cant complain about my lot in life but I really wish I'd had a diagnosis when much younger, and do feel that my lack of focus has been a huge detriment to me.

I was properly cross when a teacher told my anxious teen she “had anxiety”… no, mil “has anxiety” and it rules/ruins her life. Dd is an anxious person but that’s okay. It’s about learning skills to manage it. I want the person making aeroplanes to be anxious rather than cocky! I described it to dd as “if the works was full of non anxious people, it would be a sea of Trumps… that’s not a reality we want, some degree of anxiety helps us make judgements and the right decisions.”

Well, the difference between ND and NT is, on paper, quite clear.

"Neurodivergent" is an umbrella term, and typically covers autism, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, dysgraphia, sensory processing disorder, and Tourette's among other rarer neurodevelopmental disorders. Some also include mental illnesses under that umbrella, particularly lifelong conditions such as bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, OCD, and eating disorders; the conditions that seem to straddle the gap between "neurodevlopmental disorder" and "mental illness."

In practice, the difference isn't always so clear. Of course, many people are undiagnosed. Even more are neurodivergent but don't really think about it, especially those who have received good support for one of the more "situational" conditions such as dyslexia.* I also think a lot of people also see content online which is intended by neurodivergent people for neurodivergent people, and assume that because they relate to the topic of a few videos that therefore "everyone is neurodivergent these days."

When you see a video you relate to, it's important to remember that one of the common diagnostic criteria for conditions like autism and ADHD is that symptoms must be lifelong, and must significantly impair your quality of life. Losing your keys every now and then is one thing, but losing your keys several times a day to the extent that you're in tears over it? That's the problem. My autism and ADHD symptoms are not dependent on stress or fatigue, and they're not just something I have on an "off day." I regularly forget important appointments, or I'm too anxious about talking to people to leave the house, or I have to set alarms to remind me to eat, to take my medication, or to communicate with my family. Many of the videos people seem to be talking about are like those I see from neurodivergent creators, in which they are laughing about the funnier aspects or commiserating about the little inconveniences amongst an intended audience of likewise neurodivergent watchers. They're not showing their worst moments, in the same way I never tell my friends about my meltdowns; it feels shameful, and ugly, and private.

I'm having a difficult day getting my brain to work, so I don't think I've managed to express as well as I'd like. At least I hope someone gets something out of it.

*I know that dyslexia can actually have a wide variety of symptoms besides the well-known issues with reading and writing, such as executive dysfunction, working memory, and spacial awareness, and that for many people it is not just a situation difficult that only affects reading. I don't want to minimise that.

I agree with this.