New abortion laws

[Cheesetoastie537]

TW

I'm pro choice but the new potential abortion law changes feel a bit extreme to me. If I've understood right, if a woman was even in late stage of pregnancy (even say 35 weeks) could self abort the pregnancy and not face any charges for the death of a viable baby. I thought the 24 week mark was there for that reason. I know a woman still can't get a medically assisted abortion after 24 weeks (unless certain circumstances) but surely they'll just go home and do it now because theres nothing preventing them. No one should be in that situation surely. But if it was a case that a late pregnancy is now not wanted but a medically assisted abortion is not available and the woman knows they can do it themselves with no charges, wouldn't that just increase self done abortions?

If anything, shouldn't the law just change so that medical abortion at any stage is allowed then to at least make it safe for woman rather than them attempting a self abortion.

I'm not sure if the change in law opens up more issues than it fixes. And in part I feel that there's no protection for late pregnancies that the baby would have survived and now there's no legal charges for their life.

I've never really thought too much about abortion otherthan pro choice and felt the UK had a good middle ground.

@GarlicMile

Of course not every woman who has lost a pregnancy should be investigated (that doesn't happen as it stands).

There should be an investigation where there are red flags suggesting someone has illegally procured an abortion, potentially causing harm to the baby in the process.

There should be no such thing as an illegally procured abortion. If it's the pregnant woman's choice, it shouldn't be illegal. If it wasn't, other laws apply.

You have a very black and white thought process and I totally understand why. But I haven't said that abortions should be illegal, this needs to be carefully considered for everyone.

Where is your evidence that the ‘vast majority’ are happy with the law as it stands? All recent polling (admittedly only of women) has suggested the majority (around 60%) want a change in the law to decriminalise abortion, around 20% want it changed to have more restrictions and around 20% want it to remain the same.

These investigations are increasing.

Do you know what it's ike to have something so horrific happen and then have a police investigation and possible charges hang over your head?

If someone is harming a woman in any way that is still illegal.

What aren't you comprehending here?

One of the women was placed under investigation after giving birth prematurely.

I assume you are referring to the woman known as Sammy who was refused an abortion on the grounds of being beyond 24 weeks, then researched and considered buying abortion pills online, then decided not to, but suddenly gave birth at 28 weeks. She then called an ambulance, baby was resuscitated and made it!

That's not just a case of a woman going into premature labour, but has many red flags.

Around 60%of women think it should be changed according to quite a number of polls. It is absolutely not acceptable that groups like the ADF are interfering in our country and exerting influence over our politicians with the result that women are being criminally investigated for miscarrying. All this proposal does is prevent that.

YABU. Please educate yourself,

It does feel like there is a right wing agenda pulling strings here. I'm not convinced that these investigations are increasing out of concern for any babies.

I disagree.

If you start putting but after a statement, everything before the but is a lie.

As early as possible, as late as necessary

They already allow abortion to save the mother's life.

I know. My comment was in reply to the person who doesn’t see abortion as healthcare

Moreover, this law has nothing to do with an ectopic pregnancy. This is talking about abortions in the third trimester.

I'm contemplating that you (and many others) don't care whatsoever about the potential suffering that a fetus/baby from a DIY abortion might suffer. A baby that with medical attention would likely survive, often very easily, but who might be left to die and unpleasant death or survive with lifelong disabilities.

Because if you truly don't want a criminal investigation into sad circumstances, I assume you'd extend that to all unexplained baby deaths/aids, tragic deaths of children etc. Maybe we just shouldn't prosecute any cases involving kids because the parents are already suffering?

Or how about we continue to let the police do their job, under guidance to make it as gentle as us possible under the circumstances.

I be agree with the second half of your post. Those investigations never use to happen and they are indicative of police who are so poorly educated that they (a) don’t know the law and (b) don’t do their due diligence before arresting people. This is a problem with policing, not with our law.

Or better still, how about we don't waste police time or money investigating women suffering pregnancy loss at all?

Under what circumstances would this actually happen??
The vast majority of women are not psychopaths waiting to get the chance to let their premature newborns slowly die over days! Think about what you've written here. The number of people prepared to do that would be vanishingly small. We are talking extreme outliers here.
This whole thing is playing into the toxic fantasy that women are inferior beings in desperate need of control because they intrinsically lack moral compass. This gives me the rage.

I don't think it's worth the risk of women in this scenario feeling like they have to avoid seeking medical care, putting their health and lives at risk, in order to avoid investigation.

Don't have one then @Cheesetoastie537

Do you think women are chopping at the bit, waiting for this law to pass so they can pop in for their abortion then head over to Tesco.

Currently, fewer than 2% of abortions are performed at 20 weeks gestation or after.

@GarlicMile

I absolutely think it should be illegal to procure an abortion just before birth, as that could cause significant pain to the baby.

That should not be a choice for pregnant women to make.

@Moglet4

Not sure what polls you're looking at.

By far the most popular position is that the current arrangements are satisfactory. Only 8% of people want abortion laws loosened.

Do you really think it's the potential criminal investigation stopping women from having at home abortions at 30+ weeks?

Do you really think it's the potential investigation that would stop an abusive man coercing a woman into an at home abortion at 30+ weeks?

Do you genuinely think that there's going to be a massive influx of third trimester, at home abortions if its decriminalised?

This is nothing to do with 'sad circumstances' not being investigated, every death is a sad circumstance.

Its about not criminalising women already going through a still birth because she happened to ask for an abortion then changed her mind, or because she miscarried but didn't seem devastated enough about it, or because she loses a pregnancy she was coerced into and the abusive man complains to the police.

You're placing women last in this situation, when they should be first.

While there has been an overall increase in abortion in NI since they decriminalised it. However, no increase in late term.

So the moral panic is unwarranted.

We absolutely should decriminalise.

I might have quoted the wrong post, sorry

Exactly, what are people scared of?

That a perfectly sane woman who is 37 weeks pregnant, is suddenly going to think "awesome, quick abortion, then lunch at macdonalds"

Or will it actually mean that a woman who is going through an awful time will not be frightened to get help?