To be concerned about my 8yo’s complete lack of empathy?

[Brighdaytime]

I am a single parent to two children DS 8 and DD 7. My son is a very unempathetic child and I do not know how to bridge that gap or why it is happening? He is a lovely boy until he thinks that he has been wronged in some way.

for example, we’re away this weekend and we were going to go to the park, so I mentioned if to my children but decided to stay at the disco for longer. When on the way home I mentioned that we were going to go straight home he was infuriated, told me that I was a liar and not kind to him and had lied to him and had the biggest meltdown. We got home and I then told him to put his pyjamas on and he cried for a few minutes before I went in and discussed all of the nice things I had done for him beach/ice cream/ new toy etc and how his behaviour made me feel and also explained the consequences of his actions (having to go to bed straight away). He then cried for a good 10 minutes before I went back in to discuss why he was crying and it was because he felt sad because I had been mean to him and he didn’t understand why I had done so!

he also does not think about doing nice things for people, feels very personally attacked at the consequences of his actions being called out etc, etc

Sometimes plans have to change for whatever reason. Sounds like they wanted to stay and wanted to go to the park so can’t have it all ways.

Let him have his tantrum, tell him if he stops it we’ll go to the park tomorrow, if he doesn’t, we won’t.

I’ve been through this with my own kids, my son was a nightmare for meltdowns and tantrums when things didn’t go his way.

Now he’s a bright, well adjusted 11 year old who can cope with changes. All this pandering and you let him down etc is nonsense. Sometimes things change and can’t happen. It’s life, get over it.

But I’m very much a no nonsense, shit happens deal with it type parent.

8 was a tricky age with my ds. You feel they should be old enough to get things, show gratitude etc but they just aren't there yet.

I think in that situation I'd have (tried to!) allow the space for him to be upset, apologised for the change of plan/forgetting about the park and said it's ok to be upset and would he like a bit of space or a hug and for me to stay with him. I know how frustrating it is and that it's so so tempting to want to say "but I've done all this for you, does none of that count for anything? Why can't you be grateful?" But in my experience just letting them be upset helps them get over it sooner. I said a lot of "it's ok to cry" to him.

My ds started saying he was sorry if he had been rude/unkind and being grateful naturally maybe around 10 I think. Just keep modelling it (thanking them for a lovely day, apologising if you've been snappy etc) and it'll come.

I don't think this was partying it up at Pascha, there's obviously a clubhouse where they are with family evening entertainment!

I agree with PPs - you're not understanding your 8 year old. You could have referenced the nice stuff you'd done for them in a 'don't let one thing spoil our lovely day' talk down, but expecting good behaviour on the back of it is massively unreasonable.

I think you are getting a hard time here from some posters, it's hard to know what to do sometimes and that's ok. My nearly 8 year old DS would have reacted the exact same way, he needs to be prepped well in advance of any changes to plans but obviously that's not always possible. Apologising to a child who is having a meltdown feels a bit problematic as well. Maybe you can talk to him again today when everything is a bit calmer.
At least take some comfort from the fact your son doesnt lack empathy and is actually totally normal!

It sounds like your kid is one where you have to over communicate your reasoning.

I would strongly encourage you not to guilt trip him by saying you bought him an ice cream, what about my feelings etc. Ironically, that can actually cause children to shut down their empathy as they learn that their empathy can be used against them.

Also, I always find that the more fun my child has, the more likely she is to have a tantrum at the end of the day. It’s just the disappointment of the day ending. For yourself, it might be helpful if you build that into your expectations so that you aren’t caught off guard when emotions are high on days youve put lots of effort into. It doesn’t mean the whole day has been a failure or that the children are ungrateful. It really is just one of those things!

Agree that sometimes having a whole load of exciting fun in quick succession can lead to a kind of emotional crash. When that happens all you can do is get them to bed and remember that tomorrow is another day.

Going by your op it sounds like it’s you who lacks empathy.

You told him that you were going to the park then you didn’t. Ok, stuff happens. But it would have been a good idea to explain to your son that you weren’t going to be able to go to the park, but that you’d go tomorrow instead.

Also if you’re away and he’s had lots of treats he could be feeling overwhelmed/over excited. Often they do end up having tantrums on seemingly ‘fun’ days.

Children have a very strong sense of justice.

My suggestion would be if this happened again - at about 7pm,say to them 'we can either stay at the disco a bit longer or go to the park, but we can't do both. Which would you prefer?'. Then they are prepared and feel involved in the choice.

I do get your frustration, from your side you had done lots of lovely things and 1 thing doesn't go your sons way and he gets very upset and it feels like he is really ungrateful. But from his side, he may have not been as bothered about all those lovely things and the park was the biggest thing in his head. Sometimes we, with the best intentions,do things we think they will love rather than asking them what they want. It makes me think about a recent conversation with my just turned 6 years old DD2.
Me: grandma would like to know what you would like for your 6th birthday?
DD2: I would like grandma to take me to the park on my own without DD1 so I can have her all to myself
Me: no, I meant what present would you like
DD2: spending time with grandma is my best present, I have lots of toys already but just 1 Grandma and she's the best

What we see as important can be very different to what our children see as important.

I think you have been given a hard time on here as you were just trying to do your best. But maybe in future try and look at choices through your children's eyes.

Agree with lots of the comments about immature brains and processing and you could have handled it differently for sure but would also point out that ND kids have a very strong sense of justice and fairness and find it difficult to to cope with a last minute change of plan. It’s worth keeping in mind if this is something you see on a regular basis. It’s not a lack of empathy it’s just not fair and sometimes that’s the issue.

I think the single best parenting lesson I learned early was to try not to mention stuff that wasn't definitely going to happen to my kid. It's not always avoidable and things do change of course but there's no point in being upset with a tired hangry kid who thought he was going to the park and then is told he isn't.

@Brighdaytime sounds a bit like my son at that age and he was later diagnosed with Autism. We laugh about it now but i am completely chaotic, change my mind like the wind, say we are having pizza then change it to fish and chips, drove my poor child insane but i couldn't really understand.Obviously i do now and like i say we can laugh about it now he's an adult

Are you the OP with a different name?

As most posters have explained, you need to look at it from his pov. As an adult you have to model how to behave and respond to challenge- think how would you like to see them respond and do it yourself!

He is right you did lie. You said they would go to the park twice and they didn’t. He did what you asked but you didn’t.

I would apologise to my child and own my mistake, and say I am sorry for not following through on what I said I would do and not explaining why and for not listening. That it was my fault for not managing time better and deciding for them. That next time I will ask if they want to change the plan or explain better. Otherwise you teach that as an adult it’s ok to not do what you say and not apologise, and people who are affected, well their feelings don’t matter.

I think you’re being a bit unfairly judged here OP. Your plans changed and you didn’t have time to have a big discussion about it because you had forgotten about the park. Your son is 8, not 4 or 5. I would also echo the possible ND that others have mentioned.

FGS OP this is just a classic example of a young child feeling disappointed with a change of plan. Totally normal. No need to start being ‘concerned’ about a lack of empathy! That’s ridiculous!

We have never made a big deal of stuff like this. It happens from time to time and I don’t think it’s a bad thing to teach children that not everything is going to go their way all of the time. My 7yo will now respond with a quick “oh that’s disappointing”
may even go quiet for a few mins and I will usually say something like “I know you’re disappointed babe, I’m sorry. But we can go another time” - light and breezy and don’t turn it in to a huge drama.

Not having time and forgetting is not the same.
Claiming ND about a child you know almost nothing about is beyond nuts. It’s very normal for an 8 year to be upset about a parent not fulfilling a promise for something they wanted to do.

It sounds like OP’s techniques for dealing with situations like this are what makes it worse rather than deescalating.

One of my DC is like this whom I suspect has high functioning ASD. Gets very frustrated if late or there's a last minute change if plan.

Could you have just gone to the park for 10 mins?

Yes but OP triggered the behaviour by creating the situation. He is doing this because when he behaved she didn’t listen to him and overrode him. Bad behaviour gets a response from OP. If that’s the only way he gets heard that’s how he is going to behave when his feelings overwhelm him. Single parent or not, OP has to follow the rules they set or child is confused and learns they don’t matter. It’s called talking to your child at their level and explaining what is going on and why.

Lifeisinteresting - That’s terrible advice🙄

edited as quote from lifeisinteresting didn’t appear and meant to be response to that

@Sofiewoo I thought she had said she had forgotten further up, maybe I was mistaken.
It’s not ‘beyond nuts’ to me as he sounds like my lovely ND nephew who excels but would react the exact same way in this situation.
She was worried about his lack of empathy and I was trying to tell her that it may not be as simple as her child just overreacting or being selfish etc. ND is extremely common, I don’t see it as a negative thing, and it may not be the case at all.

Yeah your son sounds like a total psychopath because he's upset that you changed his plans and the guilt tripped him 🙄🙄🙄

@tigerlily9I agree. Single parent is irrelevant. The fact it’s been mentioned by OP shows me that OP is probably feeling exhausted, unappreciated and under valued, which has caused her to react the way she did.

It's fine to take an adult decision to change plans, that's your job. It's also fine for your son to be upset. You need to help him regulate, not shame him.

I thought by the title that your child had been bullying other children or kicking kittens, and not understanding that this was wrong.

To avoid his being upset at the change of plan, it would have been better to give the children the choice, to stay longer at the disc, or leave earlier and go to the park.