To be concerned about my 8yo’s complete lack of empathy?

[Brighdaytime]

I am a single parent to two children DS 8 and DD 7. My son is a very unempathetic child and I do not know how to bridge that gap or why it is happening? He is a lovely boy until he thinks that he has been wronged in some way.

for example, we’re away this weekend and we were going to go to the park, so I mentioned if to my children but decided to stay at the disco for longer. When on the way home I mentioned that we were going to go straight home he was infuriated, told me that I was a liar and not kind to him and had lied to him and had the biggest meltdown. We got home and I then told him to put his pyjamas on and he cried for a few minutes before I went in and discussed all of the nice things I had done for him beach/ice cream/ new toy etc and how his behaviour made me feel and also explained the consequences of his actions (having to go to bed straight away). He then cried for a good 10 minutes before I went back in to discuss why he was crying and it was because he felt sad because I had been mean to him and he didn’t understand why I had done so!

he also does not think about doing nice things for people, feels very personally attacked at the consequences of his actions being called out etc, etc

He is a young child. What’s your excuse?

He sounds like he has poor emotional regulation/self regulation skills for his age and struggles when he has an idea in mind and then what he thought was going to happen changes, possibly struggles with cognitive flexibility (changing an idea in mind) and anticipating when one thing will affect another (understanding that because of spending longer at the disco, there would not be time to go to the park, thinking ahead to anticipate something somebody else might like).

That is not the same thing as lack of empathy. What you describe is more a lack of perspective, really, than empathy, but it's more understandable if you consider the difficulties I mentioned in the first paragraph. Children don't have adult levels of perspective, it's something they gain as they mature and they don't all do this at the same rate.

The things you mention him struggling with and his reactions sound very similar to my almost-7yo who is diagnosed with ADHD but I understand these difficulties can also be present in ASD. Or as other posters have said, it could just be a child struggling because an adult is not communicating clearly with them in the first place.

To be honest I think it's you who is lacking in empathy

This.

Your whole post shows a total lack of emotional maturity op.

Whose idea was it to stay later at the disco? You promised him the park and in his eyes you lied. Some kids struggle with plans changing last minute especially if they feel they had no input. The extra treats were beside the point. I don’t think you are using the right word either. If anything you lack empathy for not seeing why your DS had a meltdown. He is 8 FGS.

It seems to be you who lacks empathy here OP. Also, he shouldn't be made to feel guilty, for being upset that you didn't do what you promised.

Okay, I understand a lot of the comments. A bit more context. We had gone to a kids disco and was planning on leaving at 7 but stayed until 7.45 as we were having such a nice time dancing/playing etc until the kids said that their feet hurt. I had completely forgot about the park but when they mentioned it to me I said we’d go in the morning because we’d just gotten carried away and then it all started from there. I completely get the comments that I was probably being manipulative in that situation but I don’t know how else to deal with it. Gently explaining it gets me nowhere and shouting gets me even further away. I think that I just get so frustrated because it’s me on my own.

you didn’t go to the park like he thought the plan was and he didn’t deal with the change of plan well. I have a child that doesn’t deal with change plus if I say we are doing something it must be done. I think he needed your support dealing with his emotions rather than punishing him. I think you are in the wrong here. Your child clearly likes the park and was looking forward to going. I can see why he thought you had lied to him. He needs your support and help when change happens. Preparation if something you have said will happen and can no longer happen for what ever reason.

I have an 8 yo. If we make a plan he expects us to stick to it. If plans have to change then he needs a proper explanation, acceptance of his feelings about it, and replanning.

if you change the plan without discussion then you have to expect some fallout.

in general kids like boundaries, rules and routines because it makes them feel safe. If you change things they feel insecure

well done for acknowledging what people are saying.
i think the best thing to do would have been to apologise that you haven’t gone to the park, acknowledge his feelings, give him a hug and explain that next time you say something you will do your very best to follow it through.

Spot on.

In your situation, at 6.45 you grab your kids and say ‘if you still want to go to the park then we need to leave in 10 minutes. If you want to stay here then that’s ok and we can go to the park tomorrow - what do you want to do?’

or ‘we’re having a great time, so I think we should stay here but we’ll go to the park tomorrow because I know Boy really wants to do that’

This - you should have explained the plans were changing and why.
imagine if you were planning on doing something with another adult and then the end of the day comes and they go well we’re going home now and missing the thing you had planned to do.

Well done for listening.

Important tip- Let go of being right. All that matters is keeping the relationship between you healthy. If you’ve upset him, no matter how unreasonable you feel it is, repair the relationship. Long reassuring hugs and telling him you understand why he’s upset. That you’re sad as well because you get sad when he’s sad. Then chat about how to feel better- hot chocolate? Plan an outing for tomorrow? Board game?

But let go of fair/right/reasonable… it doesn’t serve you well with children!

“He cried for a good ten minutes before I went back in”.
if you left him crying on his own for ten minutes I think you’re the one with the empathy problem

Exactly the reaction was way overboard and was the reason for the early bedtime all children need to learn you can't just call people names and have zero consequences

I don’t think you actually understand what empathy means. Being upset when someone promises you something and lets you down, which is what you did to him, doesn’t indicate a lack of empathy. And guilt-tripping an 8-year-old about how upset you are was shitty behaviour on your part.

Honestly, I have no time for the whole ‘gentle parenting’ thing, but you’ve basically just told an 8-year-old kid that your feelings are more important than his. He’s only eight years old, he had a strop and cried. Hardly abnormal behaviour and it certainly doesn’t indicate a lack of empathy.

You sound incredibly hard on him and you appear to favour his little sister. Poor lad.

I totally understand why you felt frustrated. Your DS isn't lacking in empathy though. He doesn't have an adult brain with adult understanding and he wasn't being cruel. He was expressing his emotions in a way that a lot of 8 year olds do. His brain is still developing. It's hard to remember that in the throws of a tantrum. Have a talk with him tomorrow about what happened when emotions have calmed down and make it a learning moment for both of you.

This!
your behaviour is pretty toxic tbh.
It’s not all about you.

I thought this was going to be a thread about a kid who was torturing animals or laughing at others’ misfortune. Not a kid who was understandably upset not to be going to the park after he’d been told he would.

Agree with everyone that he isn’t lacking in empathy, he is struggling with the change of plan as he was looking forward to the park. He was probably also tired, possibly hungry .
I found that when they were little, one of my dc needed more warning of plans changing than the other. So if plans had to change suddenly I would be apologetic and sympathetic to her being upset, but where possible I would try and give a lot of warning. Eg half an hour before -“If we stay here much longer, dancing, then we will all be tired and it will be a bit late for the park, so we can stay here for another half an hour and go to the park in the morning, or we can leave now and have a shorter trip to the park” .

Nailed it.

I haven’t read all the comments - just your post and I personally think you are the one lacking empathy for (1) not getting into his shoes / seeing things from his perspective and trying to understand why he is upset, and (2) for not remembering that he is only 8 and his brain is not as developed as yours.
I also think you should have communicated things better in terms of staying longer at the disco means no time for park.
Lastly, you explained all your feelings but doesn’t sound as though you took the time to understand his feelings. Sounds like you described all the nice things you’ve done for him in order to invalidate his feelings (e.g. I’m not mean to you because I’ve actually done this, this and this for you, basically trying to disprove what he’s saying and feeling).

Plus you punished him for being upset!

Sounds like a long day, being knackered probably has something to do with the big emotions. It's not unreasonable that he was upset though. It was unreasonable for his mum to make him feel bad for that and then claim he's the one with no empathy. He's 8, it's totally normal that they can seem a bit dramatic about stuff. She's an adult supposedly modelling how to manage those feelings.

Looking at all your comments, I think your son might be similar to how my son was at 8. It took him a few more years than other kids (eg his sister) to see the bigger picture and other peoples' perspective and therefore would more easily feel that others were treating him unfairly, especially as he would get hyper focused on what he wanted to happen. The good news is that he is now a lovely, kind, young adult. When he was a child though, we needed to explain what would happen and stick to plans more for him than his sister. He and we think he's probably mildly ASD which also meant he was less flexible about plans. I think there are quite a lot of people who have mild ASD traits, particularly boys, who may not merit assessment for diagnosis but who take a bit longer with some of this stuff around perspective and decentering from their own fixed point of view. I found it hard to deal with when my DH was away, so appreciate it must feel difficult as a single parent. My son also didn't often think to do nice things for others, as you mentioned. However, if he became aware of how upset someone was about something i.e. their needs were placed right under his nose, he could be very kind and caring. We found it helped to think of him as emotionally a bit behind other kids, and shift our expectations. And also to reflect on things with him the day after, rather than when he was tired and emotional.