Do you trust the state to protect and provide for you?

[TFloss]

Read a Times article on 12th June - ‘Middle-class vigilantes are turning against the state’. It talks about a growing trend of middle-class Brits taking matters into their own hands due to perceived failures of the state, particularly around police and public services creating a shift toward self-reliance, driven not by ideology but by necessity.

Doing own police work to solve crimes, private healthcare, private education, private security/community networks to prevent crime, more use of private transport, use of private mental health services, private carers, private bin collections.

Is this unreasonable or are you seeing this? Are people feeling like they have no choice but to step in where the state has stepped back?

I can't imagine relying on the state.
The main reason I save is to ensure that my family and people I know don't have to rely on it. Sure we use what is available but our lives would be a lot worse if we couldn't supplement it.
I'm thinking tutors, private care for elderly, private gps as and when, drugs not prescribed on the NHS, dentistry, not relying on legal aid, etc etc...

I'm in an area which you wouldn't call established middle class but more, working class done well - and even from this vantage, I see people filling in the gaps where the state is failing.

Private dentistry, private healthcare, tutors to fill in gaps in education, private childcare, we have some neglected council owned trees that neighbours chip in and pay someone to wrangle it back into shape (which I'm not sure is strictly allowed), we also have litter pickers who volunteer to keep the place tidy. Stuff like that.

We're one of the few places that still has weekly bin and fortnightly recycle collections so no private companies for that service- although there's a wheelie bin cleaner who follows in the wake of the bin collection who must be making a killing.

But no vigilantism or private sleuthing. Although we have an active Facebook group that is a hive of watching and reporting any dodgy antics.

No I don't. I don't even like relying on the NHS never mind anything else.

Of course not. A member of my family was recently put on a 2 year NHS waitlist for a knee replacement. He needs one now, not in two years’ time, so he is cashing in some investments which had been put in place to fund his retirement in order to go private. He is in the fortunate position of being able to do that, but that’s not the point.

This is a person who has literally worked hard all his life & never claimed a penny in benefits of any kind, ever. In return, he not unreasonably expected the state to look after him in his time of need. He now feels utterly betrayed, so guess who he will be voting for at the next election?

I did until I saw what happened to someone becoming suddenly disabled. I don't have a choice but to rely on the state but I see now how threadbare the safety net is.

I hadn’t thought of it this way but nope, we done. Use private education, go private for operations when needed (eg DF has knee replacements to fit in with work), private dentist. But what I hadn’t realised is that we also pay for a local security patrol twice per night who also provide a fast response service because we kept getting thefts on our property the police never came out to.

No. I don't trust that the government has my best interests at heart. We can't rely on the NHS, the police, my DCs lovely school is struggling more every year. I've been so disappointed in this utterly spineless labour government. We need bug changes and they've done nothing but tinker round the edges and pander.

I rely on the state for nothing. I pay for private everything, because I have to, to actually get anything. I am a net contributor by a very wide margin but it means nothing.

Is your thread based on that couple who stole their car back, op?

Nothing like a good laugh just from the title of a post.

trust the state to take care of me? No. I only trust myself.

Reform?

No. Of course I don’t trust them to look after me.

My neighbours car got nicked, they knew where it was and the police refused to go and collect it- just gave a crime number. Of course my neighbour didn’t want to go into an unknown situation and retrieve it.

I had my car broken into. Nothing.

I lost my job, because I had savings I was expected to look after myself.

I have private health cover and use private GP because it’s near impossible to get an appointment with an NHS one.

I fully expect the state pension to be means tested by time I come to retirement

can’t get registered with a NHS dentist, so I use private.

the list goes on… but i don’t feel like the state provides any support or safety net for me

Yes that was one of the examples in the article. The police couldn’t help so they followed the air tag and got it back themselves

I agree we are really heading to a two tier state. Thise who can’t pay will rely on an inadequate state system and those who can pay will get decent services. Everyone I know who can afford private healthcare insurance has it.

I’m curious, What can these security patrols actually do? Presumably they can’t arrest people. I see them driving around a wealthy area near me, in cars similar to police cars; is their existence a deterrent to burglars? There are endless threads about security staff in supermarkets being powerless to do anything stop shoplifting, apart from look menacing.

I’ve never had to use private health care and am happy with the NHS care I’ve received throughout my life.
Schools… Again they’ve been fine, my son did much better than expected in a working class area, the school went out of there way with extra tutoring for GCSE year.
The police.. Nope, I’ve been badly let down by them as a teenager and it was only through a charity stepping in (Rape Crisis, Centre for Women’s justice) that I got listened to.

This is so worrying (and all our own doing). Apparently Scandinavian countries have high levels of trust in their government, and in each other. We could have chosen a model like theirs, we chose lower tax instead. This choice costs us all much more in the long run.

No way! I’ve made sure things are in place so my kids don’t have to rely on the state and neither do DH and I when we retire.

Thankfully our kids are heading towards careers that can sustain private healthcare. The NHS is pointless unless you need emergency treatment and even then I’d be scared that I wouldn’t . get treated properly.

DH is police and he said they aren’t able to provide the service they want to and need to provide. It’s awful as the public think the police can’t be bothered but they don’t pull the strings and are told what to do by those in charge. If you try and do the right thing the IOPC kick you out, you don’t stand a chance.

Yep.

Powerful emotion, betrayal.

God no. Especially now. But under this government there’ll be increasingly less choice available other than state control.

We had teams of vigilantes locally after the police failed to deal with car thefts (keys being taken from houses).

One home watch meeting had over 100 people at. The police were told to deal with the little shit or the vigilantes would. Funnily enough they did.

Sounds like the NHS and schools came through for you and your son, which is great to hear. But that experience with the police… that’s tough and I’m so sorry to hear this.

No, I don't. DD has been failed by education and mental health services, we've spent tens of thousands trying to get her help and even a basic level of education. If she can't work (and she doesn't look like being able to, at least for some years), she's unlikely to be eligible for benefits now due to Labour deciding mental health problems aren't real.

Fuck no. I can’t get over how many times I’ve heard that people have had a car nicked located it and the police cba to go get it. They show up in full force if a woman tweets she knows what a bloody woman is but actual crime, nope. It’s pathetic.

Why would the state provide for us? In extremis, yes obviously, but otherwise that’s a completely unrealistic expectation.