Do you trust the state to protect and provide for you?

[TFloss]

Read a Times article on 12th June - ‘Middle-class vigilantes are turning against the state’. It talks about a growing trend of middle-class Brits taking matters into their own hands due to perceived failures of the state, particularly around police and public services creating a shift toward self-reliance, driven not by ideology but by necessity.

Doing own police work to solve crimes, private healthcare, private education, private security/community networks to prevent crime, more use of private transport, use of private mental health services, private carers, private bin collections.

Is this unreasonable or are you seeing this? Are people feeling like they have no choice but to step in where the state has stepped back?

Anyone who works pays thousands for people who don't want to work, I was ill end of last year and doctor said why not go home we will make out patients appointments will be 3 months, if you stay you could get sicker I refused to go home as knew I was not well. Had multiple stomach ulcers due to stress as I work full-time in stressful job and constantly worry as costs gone up wages haven't now struggling to maintain property as now just over 60 so cant do what I used to do. I have two sons in late 30's who both have mental health issues due to their voilent father I have to support them as nhs does nothing how can hospital just sow up wrist that they have cut and not give them any support

We pay for our dental care, I paid for my cataract surgery and we’ll pay for any further surgery we need. Seems fair to me.

Yes and no. I am having an nhs birth but we both have private health insurance through dh's work. Dh got vasectomy cos we are planning for private education for 1 child and we will stay in the 2 bed flat we bought in our 20s to facilitate that.

Protect in a war? Yes.I've no choice. From normal crime? No. I expect them to prosecute if they find the culprits but they often fail to do this. Provide? No.

No and and a parent to a severely disabled child, anyone who thinks they can when SHTF are delusional

The state loves it when you get old, they will put you in some crappy care home at extortionate rates, sell your house you spent all your life buying to fund it your family have no say and the carers will be foreigners on minimum wage who don't care

Everyone can fall on hard times immigrant or non- immigrants and may need support. But I do agree that people shouldn’t make benefits a lifestyles and that also applies to many British families who have been unemployed or under employed for generations. A childhood friend I used to talk to now and again didn’t work until she was 30.

Kept having kids and because her current partner does cash in hand work on an ad hoc basis, and her ex partner refuses to work at all so doesn’t pay maintenance, I guess the household income was low enough for her to receive benefits all through her 20s.

When her youngest was 5 she finally went back to work, and only does 18 hours a week now even though her kids are all secondary school now.

She chooses not to work more because she gets significant benefit top ups.

The state has fuck all say where you go if you’re self funding. That’s precisely why I’m happy that I’ll be paying for myself if a care home is needed.

I will say too that people sometimes don’t help themselves in this country

Take education for example, a lot of schools are not “bad” because their teachers are crap or their facilities are lacking, but because the children are raised not to value education or respect teachers. If you get too many of those kids in one school it’s hard for the teachers and the few children who do want to learn and do something in life.

Some people make a series of terrible life choices that then impacts their own physical or mental health or the mental health of their kids. It’s all “mind your own business” and “I’ll do what I want or raise my family how I see fit ” until they need help from the state.

I used to work with foster care kids and they were absolutely brilliant. I have high hopes for them. But generally speaking I can imagine many foster care kids will grow to live with the lifelong trauma of the choices their parents made. And will either be economically inactive and/or have mental or physical health issues.

Governments may be failing us but often we are also failing ourselves and those who depend on us.

Precisely.

One just hopes one goes quickly when independence leaves.

I wouldn't be that sure my uncle went into hospital fell off bed and broke leg, his wife had no say on where he went they put him in care home 90 miles from her, they did have comfortable life but as they had money she had to pay 1500 a week she wanted him back home but social services said no as she was 85, he died 2 weeks later dehydrated and malnutrition

Amen to that.

That sounds as though one or both may have been regarded as lacking capacity and that a deprivation of liberty decision may have been taken. Who was advocating for them?

They moved him then told wife she challenged it and said he should come home, my dad his brother supported her they said no unless you have power of attorney the state does what they want. My family has longevity grandparents born in 1895 and 86 lived until 95 and 97 but dementia in last years my father's brothers and sister's died in their 90's he is 85 now his sister now 90, we put power of attorney in place

The poor teachers have impossible task they can't tell off children if they do then parents turn up and give teachers abuse. The pupils who do want to learn get picked on by the naughty children and especially if you are a boy then the girls bully you and nothing is done my grandson had 5 girls who were 2 years older walking round his house calling him names because he was clever but he is also a kind lovely boy reported to school nothing done there was a boy who carried knife but they didn't expel him

You think that but if no power of attorney its down to social services, nhs and health services they may say they take into account spouse and family wishes but they dont

we could use more gated communities etc where it gives better services to the people that want to contribute to the community ect, too often things get built then its oh x person vandalised this or groups causing riots etc

Seems like the whole thread is Reform!

we do need a new world order. to improve society

Doing own police work to solve crimes, private healthcare, private education, private security/community networks to prevent crime, more use of private transport, use of private mental health services, private carers, private bin collections.

not sure how today's middle classes can afford the above!

Isn't the point people are and should be responsible for themselves and not leave everything to others, how my less pressure would be on the nhs if people sought help for theit anxiety before having a loyalty card to a&e, actually parented their children and not expect schools to pick up the pieces, every adult should be working unless there is an genuine 'medical disability' other diagnosed reason they can't or have other ways of financially supporting themselves, yes only having children if you can raise them without being on benefits first and leave community housing for genuine emergencies how much more can individuals do to help themselves first

And as much pearl clutching people can do over this is it wrong?

I see my life as my responsibility. Never expected the state to “protect and provide”

I'm in the centre of a mainly working class city and get a same-day GP call back without fail. 2 NHS surgical procedures in the last year- one of them I did wait a year for. Some of it may be broken but not all of it is.

No I don't rely on the government for anything. West Mercia police did nothing for me when I asked for help during my abusive marriage. They literally turned there back on me and I lost everything.
You have no choice but to take matters in your own hands .
Reform will get in at the next election but they have no long term plans other than migration which won't fix the country.
Labour are an absolute shambles and Starmer needs removing immediately not in 4 years. But Labour will leave it to late and Farage will get in by default.

I was literally only just thinking and talking about this yesterday. There are no services any more and people are.having to pay more and more to fill the gaps. This creates a two tier system where the rich(er) can afford policing and healthcare and even decent bin services but the poor can’t. It’s also privatisation and taxation by stealth, completely opaque and extremely unfair way to tax people.

i am experiencing this personally more and more with my health. Due to being let down in various ways by the nhs I am having to pay for various bits of private healthcare; its really mounting up. The latest is I’ve just been told following assessment that I need a talking therapy that isn’t 10 weeks of CBT (which is all they seem to offer now) so now I need to pay for that also (which is a lot of money) on top of everything else. My mental health is really bad, I’m suicidal and unable to work. But I’m on my own basically. It’s not helped my mental health as logically I know it’s money but it just feels like no one gives a shit.

It’s a depressing and worrying state of affairs and feels very unfair that someone with less money couldn’t afford it at all and would just be fucked. And people wonder why there’s a huge increase in people unable to work due to mental health! .

The country has really gone to shit and I can only see it getting worse.