Do you trust the state to protect and provide for you?

[TFloss]

Read a Times article on 12th June - ‘Middle-class vigilantes are turning against the state’. It talks about a growing trend of middle-class Brits taking matters into their own hands due to perceived failures of the state, particularly around police and public services creating a shift toward self-reliance, driven not by ideology but by necessity.

Doing own police work to solve crimes, private healthcare, private education, private security/community networks to prevent crime, more use of private transport, use of private mental health services, private carers, private bin collections.

Is this unreasonable or are you seeing this? Are people feeling like they have no choice but to step in where the state has stepped back?

To some, not all. I cannot get a GP appointment. At all. Ever. So no, it’s not “universally available”. It should be and god knows I pay enough tax to facilitate it, but it’s not.

The UK hasn't improved productivity in decades, and our GDP per person is shrinking. As a country, we need to accept that - unless we can improve our productivity.

What has changed is
a) the tax burden has shifted even further towards higher earners, rather than lower earners
b) higher earners are being means-tested out of more and more supposedly universal services so they don't even get the benefit of what they are paying more and more towards

Yes, also true.

I suppose, getting into the politics of this ... I would like the Labour government to make absolutely sure that the money they are pitching into the NHS is spent wisely.

Worryingly, I've not yet heard anything about dealing with the elephant in the room: staff sickness and absence, and dealing with the underemployment of newly qualified doctors.

Wesley needs to steal himself for some battles with the unions. In fact, given that he's got his way with the budget, they are probably the biggest threat to any change or reform of the NHS right now.

I think if we choose to go private the state should reimburse us what would have been spent had we gone nhs.

parts of the world do this for private education also

I think that's an excellent idea. No idea how it would work in practice, but providing tax relief on the purchase could be done I suppose.

So unfortunately accurate

Sadly Tory austerity left so little in the coffers, this is a non-starter

It's not Tory austerity to blame. It's low productivity caused by perverse disincentives to work.

Hmm. I'm not sure it is wholly equal. My DC went to a "delightful" leafy cofe school, feted for being top of the league tables. There were no fees but there were peripatetic music lessons with instrument hire and teacher fees and an expectation that every child learnt - about £80 pcm in the noughties. Endless cake sales requiring time and money, the summer and Christmas bazaars raising c£20k and £4k complete with generous auction prizes and generous bids.

It all easily added up to £30pw in addition to milk money, dinner money, £1 a week for class funds for tissues, glue, seeds, etc.

and some of the teaching was so dim, children needed tutors to keep the school in the top three and get them into selective secondaries.

It isn't equal even when it's free

No.

I'm a middle aged, working class woman. I grew up knowing I could not trust the state to protect me.🙃

Well quite, and the state provides the minimum accepted standard. I always wanted far more.

Not always. I paid for my cataract surgery. It was done by the same surgeon in the same theatre as if the NHS paid. The only difference was that I didn’t have to wait.

Caused by UC propping up poor paying employers

It's called a Financial Institution Notice or FIN. Introduced in 2021.

That started with Brown's tax credits. Which also had very high levels of fraud.

I'm from. NI.

I grew up knowing that the state doesn't provide the minimum accepted standard for its citizens. It didn't for me or my family.

Or my friends. Or my neighbours, school mates, colleagues etc.

Nope. But I've found in times of need that the Big State is a lot more helpful than the small state which is populated by workers all too ready to take their pay whilst doing their best to ensure the people they are paid to assist receive the absolute minimum.

Yes, I think it's easy to be complacent, as I was-I always loved the idea of the NHS and our benefits system which protected the vulnerable-till I saw an old relative left in a chair in AE for days, or a friend who couldn't work in tears due to the disability checks (not sure what the proper name for the interviews he had to attend is, sorry) and feeling helpless and not believed.

Oh good grief, FIN was introduced to comply with international tax rules and investigations into corporate fraud and money shuffling. It can also be used for issues of debt collection where money is owed to HMRC.

Every FIN request requires a formal justification and the organisation gets a copy of the full report supplied on them. They can challenge if anything is incorrect.

Do you regard it as sinister that employers provide wages info to HMRC?