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19
Fetaface · 17/06/2025 20:21

TeenagersAngst · 17/06/2025 20:12

Struggling to find any reports on this - would be interested to see the data you have

The Muslim Women's Network reported on it as did some councils like Sheffield and also CEOP. They also reported that the data they have no idea of because many are threatened into silence due to family honour and because they were filmed and threatened with sending it to families here and abroad. They also reported that it was hard to be heard as they were not white.

The scale of this we will never know but it would be very dumb of us to assume that some children are safe with paedophiles because they are a certain religion. No child is safe with a paedo around.

TeenagersAngst · 17/06/2025 20:22

Fetaface · 17/06/2025 20:21

The Muslim Women's Network reported on it as did some councils like Sheffield and also CEOP. They also reported that the data they have no idea of because many are threatened into silence due to family honour and because they were filmed and threatened with sending it to families here and abroad. They also reported that it was hard to be heard as they were not white.

The scale of this we will never know but it would be very dumb of us to assume that some children are safe with paedophiles because they are a certain religion. No child is safe with a paedo around.

Edited

That’s so interesting, thank you.

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 20:30

Barr77 · 17/06/2025 19:54

The Labour Party haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory on this issue — and they need to be very careful not to become the party associated with political cowardice. But let’s not pretend the Conservatives have done much better. Neither side has shown the urgency or moral courage this issue deserves.

Labour-led councils — particularly in Rotherham, Rochdale, and Oxford — were in charge during the worst of the grooming gang abuse. Multiple inquiries, including the recent Casey Report, now confirm what survivors and whistleblowers had said for years: these councils ignored, denied, or minimised the abuse, often out of fear that confronting it might seem racist or upset key local voting blocs.

Political sensitivities, particularly around race and community cohesion, seemed to matter more than the safety of working-class girls. Former Labour MP Simon Danczuk made clear that many within Labour turned a blind eye because they didn’t want to risk losing votes.

The late Jo Cox expressed the dilemma clearly — wanting to protect victims but worried that, by speaking openly, could feed far-right narratives. This tension seems to have haunted the party’s response.

When a national inquiry was proposed in January 2025, Keir Starmer and Labour leadership focused on this same fears of risk for far-right exploitation of the issue, using that as a reason to whip MPs to vote against it.

Inside the party, responses were mixed:
Lucy Powell - called discussions about grooming gangs “dog whistles” on BBC Radio 4. Jess Philips faced criticism for not pushing harder or speaking out decisively during the inquiry vote.

There are however notable exceptions who have long called for action and accountability, though they often faced resistance. They deserve recognition and rightly so. Sarah Champion,, MP for Rotherham, who has been a tireless advocate for victims. Ann Cryer, former MP for Keighley, was one of the first politicians to speak out despite backlash and Melanie Onn, former MP for Great Grimsby, criticised Labour’s slow response and political caution.

But to be clear: the Conservatives also had years to act. They’ve been in government since 2010. If they truly believed a national inquiry was needed, they had multiple chances — and didn’t take them. It only became politically convenient after Labour’s failures became public again. And of course there has been the rise of Reform.

Ultimately, it’s disgusting how all parties have behaved.

Absolutely agree with all of this,
Both parties are guilty.
MPs like Ann Cryer, Sarah Champion etc were true champions and did the right thing despite the vitriolic accusations of racism etc

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 20:37

TeenagersAngst · 17/06/2025 19:58

There have been multiple responses to this point on this thread. But you are determined to view this through one lens - misogyny.

I have already said I agree with your perspective on this. But in this case, the disproportionate numbers of Pakistani men involved in the gang culture cannot be ignored. It explains why institutions failed to act and that is a key part of the story. They didn’t only fail to act because they were all hardened misogynists. They failed to act because of fears of being accused of racism. It’s no coincidence that the majority of predators operated with impunity in Labour- controlled authorities.

If ethnicity isn’t an important factor how do you explain reports with the word ‘Pakistani’ crossed out? How do you explain the countless news reports addressing the denial due to concerns about inflaming cultural tensions?

Moreover, why are you expending so much energy arguing against it as something worthy of further investigation? Clearly previous reports haven’t gone far enough. Local authorities are not volunteering themselves for local investigations- why not? You really think they’re worried about being outed as misogynists??

You haven't answered the question.

I have never denied the fact that these cases were partly ignored due to racial tension. I was questioning how these gangs differed to those of other gangs due to the particular ethnicity of the perpetrators.

Its very obvious why people don't want to admit complete dereliction of duty.

ZoeCM · 17/06/2025 20:56

Yvette Cooper says, "The vast majority of our British Asian and Pakistani heritage communities continue to be appalled by these terrible crimes, and agree that the criminal minority of sick predators and perpetrators in every community must be dealt with robustly by the criminal law."

I don't think this is true. This is one of those things woolly-headed liberals like to believe is true. How many imams have spoken out against the grooming gangs? Where all the protests?

TeenagersAngst · 17/06/2025 20:59

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 20:37

You haven't answered the question.

I have never denied the fact that these cases were partly ignored due to racial tension. I was questioning how these gangs differed to those of other gangs due to the particular ethnicity of the perpetrators.

Its very obvious why people don't want to admit complete dereliction of duty.

Edited

Well, if you’ve never denied racial tensions being a factor in these gangs being allowed to gang rape children for two decades, Im struggling to understand why you’re getting your knickers in a twist about ethnicity being a key factor.

MarianaMuse · 17/06/2025 21:01

miraxxx · 17/06/2025 19:35

Yeah,but you, oh enlightened one, have already established that all men are misogynist. Wait, did any white british men run out to Syria to enslave and rape yazidi children? Why not since all men are equally vile?

They tend to go to Thailand to sexually exploit young girls and women for about £5, less than the price of a drink in a UK bar.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 21:06

TeenagersAngst · 17/06/2025 20:59

Well, if you’ve never denied racial tensions being a factor in these gangs being allowed to gang rape children for two decades, Im struggling to understand why you’re getting your knickers in a twist about ethnicity being a key factor.

I'm not 'getting my knickers in a twist' I'm interested to know why there needs to be further investigation into the modus operandi of these groups because of their ethnicity. I'm not sure what more, after over ten investigations, we need to know.

I'm very interested in people who denigrated the victims and revictimised them, being held to account. I'm interested in cold cases being reopened. I'm interested in new laws such as making it a criminal offence to cover up CSA and a complete overhaul in how victims of CSA are treated including having their convictions quashed. I'm also very interested in recommendations actually being implemented instead of dropped.

MarianaMuse · 17/06/2025 21:07

ZoeCM · 17/06/2025 20:56

Yvette Cooper says, "The vast majority of our British Asian and Pakistani heritage communities continue to be appalled by these terrible crimes, and agree that the criminal minority of sick predators and perpetrators in every community must be dealt with robustly by the criminal law."

I don't think this is true. This is one of those things woolly-headed liberals like to believe is true. How many imams have spoken out against the grooming gangs? Where all the protests?

I grew up in Oldham and live in Rochdale. Many imams and community elders have spoken out. Of course, some of these men were paedophiles, just as many Catholic and Church of England priests have been paedophiles (Google why Justin Welby resigned). Every single man I personally know who has been convicted of sexually abusing underage girls has been White British.

MarianaMuse · 17/06/2025 21:10

Fetaface · 17/06/2025 09:53

Oh I have seen that. I have been accused of racism on this thread.

Maybe ask for a change of title on the thread if you want to focus on one group.
You are allowed to talk about one group - pakistani gangs but the thread is about grooming gangs so that is what I will talk about.

Yes, that is a good idea. One thread about Pakistani grooming gangs and another about white grooming gangs.

TeenagersAngst · 17/06/2025 21:16

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 21:06

I'm not 'getting my knickers in a twist' I'm interested to know why there needs to be further investigation into the modus operandi of these groups because of their ethnicity. I'm not sure what more, after over ten investigations, we need to know.

I'm very interested in people who denigrated the victims and revictimised them, being held to account. I'm interested in cold cases being reopened. I'm interested in new laws such as making it a criminal offence to cover up CSA and a complete overhaul in how victims of CSA are treated including having their convictions quashed. I'm also very interested in recommendations actually being implemented instead of dropped.

Because Louise Casey has spent the last six months reviewing the evidence, has spoken to victims and has looked at past reports - and has decided more needs to be done to get to the root cause and a resolution.

What audit have you undertaken in the last six months which leads you to a different conclusion?

SquashedMallow · 17/06/2025 21:26

ZoeCM · 17/06/2025 20:56

Yvette Cooper says, "The vast majority of our British Asian and Pakistani heritage communities continue to be appalled by these terrible crimes, and agree that the criminal minority of sick predators and perpetrators in every community must be dealt with robustly by the criminal law."

I don't think this is true. This is one of those things woolly-headed liberals like to believe is true. How many imams have spoken out against the grooming gangs? Where all the protests?

I couldn't agree with you more and I'm glad someone has had the guts to voice it.

It's a caveat. "We now know there's a common link with the Pakistani heritage of the perpetrators and now acknowledge it is in fact a 'thing' but just so as nobody accuses us of racism we'll pretend that all the Pakistani community are up in arms and find it deplorable"

You won't hear a peep out of them.

As we never do. When other minority ethnic groups commit atrocious crimes (Axel Rudakubana- where's all the threads on black Mumsnetters appalled at him ? There's only threads relating to black victims of crime) nobody on there seems to care about the white kids?) when terrorism under the name of 'religion' takes place : the Muslim community aren't falling over themselves to unite with us and scream from the rooftops "not in our name" .

Now, we know of bloody course that just because someone shares a religion or colour with someone awful that they don't have to answer for their crimes. But if it is a minority group within the UK, especially when their stating there is Islam phobia and racism, surely someone, anyone is willing to speak up and say "these monsters don't represent us" or at least advertise sympathy with the victims.

Let's face it : we harp on and on and on, on here how "males need to step up and sort out male violence" etc. but why are they the only group expected to sort out their "own" ?

I think we've just kind of accepted nobody else has to bend over backwards for cohesion.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 21:29

TeenagersAngst · 17/06/2025 21:16

Because Louise Casey has spent the last six months reviewing the evidence, has spoken to victims and has looked at past reports - and has decided more needs to be done to get to the root cause and a resolution.

What audit have you undertaken in the last six months which leads you to a different conclusion?

She didn't say that there needs to be further investigation into their modus operandi. She decided that there needed to be a national inquiry because the data was flawed, information wasn't shared, denial by institutions and most importantly, justice for the survivors.

SquashedMallow · 17/06/2025 21:30

MarianaMuse · 17/06/2025 21:07

I grew up in Oldham and live in Rochdale. Many imams and community elders have spoken out. Of course, some of these men were paedophiles, just as many Catholic and Church of England priests have been paedophiles (Google why Justin Welby resigned). Every single man I personally know who has been convicted of sexually abusing underage girls has been White British.

Probably because you live in a predominantly 'white British ' country. Same way most paeodophiles in Zimbabwe will be black. But if a disproportionate amount of white people there (even a small handful ) started commiting these awful crimes. You may think they were disproportionately represented....

TeenagersAngst · 17/06/2025 21:32

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 21:29

She didn't say that there needs to be further investigation into their modus operandi. She decided that there needed to be a national inquiry because the data was flawed, information wasn't shared, denial by institutions and most importantly, justice for the survivors.

Yes, the data was flawed. The ethnicity data….

Are we going to go round in circles all night?

Fetaface · 17/06/2025 21:36

MarianaMuse · 17/06/2025 21:10

Yes, that is a good idea. One thread about Pakistani grooming gangs and another about white grooming gangs.

And one investigation for Pakistani and one for black men and one for Kurdish and one for white and one for Chinese and one for Hispanic....

Great idea! Good use of money! Or we could do one that would address them all.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 21:41

TeenagersAngst · 17/06/2025 21:32

Yes, the data was flawed. The ethnicity data….

Are we going to go round in circles all night?

Yes, there's little data on ethnicity, we've known that for a long time.

I agree, this exchange is pointless.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 21:45

SquashedMallow · 17/06/2025 21:26

I couldn't agree with you more and I'm glad someone has had the guts to voice it.

It's a caveat. "We now know there's a common link with the Pakistani heritage of the perpetrators and now acknowledge it is in fact a 'thing' but just so as nobody accuses us of racism we'll pretend that all the Pakistani community are up in arms and find it deplorable"

You won't hear a peep out of them.

As we never do. When other minority ethnic groups commit atrocious crimes (Axel Rudakubana- where's all the threads on black Mumsnetters appalled at him ? There's only threads relating to black victims of crime) nobody on there seems to care about the white kids?) when terrorism under the name of 'religion' takes place : the Muslim community aren't falling over themselves to unite with us and scream from the rooftops "not in our name" .

Now, we know of bloody course that just because someone shares a religion or colour with someone awful that they don't have to answer for their crimes. But if it is a minority group within the UK, especially when their stating there is Islam phobia and racism, surely someone, anyone is willing to speak up and say "these monsters don't represent us" or at least advertise sympathy with the victims.

Let's face it : we harp on and on and on, on here how "males need to step up and sort out male violence" etc. but why are they the only group expected to sort out their "own" ?

I think we've just kind of accepted nobody else has to bend over backwards for cohesion.

I agree. The current investigation into CSA in Ireland has uncovered tens of thousands of cases going back decades. Covered up by everyone, absolutely despicable. Yet I haven't heard Catholics scream from the rooftops about how abhorrent it is. Not.a.peep.

C8H10N4O2 · 17/06/2025 21:52

TeenagersAngst · 17/06/2025 20:22

That’s so interesting, thank you.

Its also worth looking at the reports from Southall Black Sisters, Karma Nirvana and other groups which specialise in in supporting minority women through the additional taboos they face in reporting sexual abuse and coerced marriages.

This is an old first hand account form one of the Mipuri victims of the Rotherham gangs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30152240

Lubna talks about how she was groomed

Yorkshire Muslim girl speaks of grooming ordeal

A teenage Muslim girl tells the BBC how she was groomed and abused by gangs of men in Yorkshire.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30152240

C8H10N4O2 · 17/06/2025 21:59

MarianaMuse · 17/06/2025 21:10

Yes, that is a good idea. One thread about Pakistani grooming gangs and another about white grooming gangs.

Why assume that all white grooming gangs are the same any more than those gangs within other racial groups?
Culture is more relevant (which may overlap with race and or claimed religion). Italian, Russian, Albanian, London, Glaswegian and otoher groups all have slightly differing ways of recruiting and holding onto gang members, variations in their criminal activities, variations in how they influence authorities and how they coerce silence within their own communities.

Culture is relevant to gang formation and cohesion. The details will vary and those variations will influence ways of investigation but the overall pattern is the same

Everanewbie · 17/06/2025 22:20

ZoeCM · 17/06/2025 20:56

Yvette Cooper says, "The vast majority of our British Asian and Pakistani heritage communities continue to be appalled by these terrible crimes, and agree that the criminal minority of sick predators and perpetrators in every community must be dealt with robustly by the criminal law."

I don't think this is true. This is one of those things woolly-headed liberals like to believe is true. How many imams have spoken out against the grooming gangs? Where all the protests?

I read something on twitter earlier. “Loudest recorded noise in human history- eruption of Krakatoa. Quietest sound in human history - the condemnation of Pakistani rape gangs from so called community leaders”

SquashedMallow · 17/06/2025 22:39

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 21:45

I agree. The current investigation into CSA in Ireland has uncovered tens of thousands of cases going back decades. Covered up by everyone, absolutely despicable. Yet I haven't heard Catholics scream from the rooftops about how abhorrent it is. Not.a.peep.

Yes, I agree!

MarianaMuse · 17/06/2025 22:49

SquashedMallow · 17/06/2025 09:53

Did you miss the bit where they said from a majority white country, there is a disproportionate percentage of Pakistani men committing these crimes? Selective data you're choosing.

I will wait for the data to come from the inquiry. I’m well aware that there are paedophiles in the Muslim community, the Christian community, and the far right mob.

MarianaMuse · 17/06/2025 22:57

SquashedMallow · 17/06/2025 22:39

Yes, I agree!

I used to work with teenagers from several areas of Ireland who had been abused by white Catholic men, usually their grandfathers and uncles, and brought to English children’s homes to protect them. There were some white English teenage boys and girls who had been taken into local authority care because they were “child prostitutes” as well. They had, without exception, been abused by their parents and their parents’ friendship groups. This was in the late 1990s.

MarianaMuse · 17/06/2025 22:59

Everanewbie · 17/06/2025 22:20

I read something on twitter earlier. “Loudest recorded noise in human history- eruption of Krakatoa. Quietest sound in human history - the condemnation of Pakistani rape gangs from so called community leaders”

If you read it on Twitter it’s definitely true.

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