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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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19
MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 16:45

TildaSwan · 17/06/2025 16:27

I absolutely agree with your point on how these girls were treated by the authorities and how they were silenced. It's imperative that there is a deep dive into the complete failure of 'safe guarding '. But these attitudes were not only held by authorities, but were widespread amongst the perpetrators too. I don't think you can look at one part without the other; that would serve no purpose.

Again I disagree. Are you suggesting that only grooming gangs made up of one particular ethnicity are misogynist? This is why I asked why ethnicity was important as people seemed fixated on it at the expense of everything else. It's important in the sense that people didn't act because of fear of racial tension. However, I view all sexual predators the same.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 16:49

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 16:22

Yes . This is the horrifying truth. People in power putting their political careers before the safety of vulnerable children.
This is why the ethnicities of the perpetrators is so relevant - it’s not about racism it’s about authorities prioritising protecting their electoral interests over and above vulnerable children with no voting power.
@MiloMinderbinder925 can you see that?

Are you suggesting that the Labour party turned a blind eye to mass child sex abuse because they wanted the Pakistani/heritage vote?

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 16:50

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 16:12

I don't agree that ethnicity is the main factor. I believe that the reason these girls weren't believed is because of misogyny ie seeing women and girls as less than.

In her report, Casey talks about adultification which has been a problem since time immemorial. Treating girls like they're much older than they are and not seeing them as children. She describes the victims being treated as though they consented, when children legally can't consent. One social worker described a 10 year old as a "prostitute" - that's not prostitution, that's child sexual abuse.

These girls were treated as "trash" by the people meant to be safeguarding them and many were prosecuted. This is a reflection of the misogyny deeply ingrained in society which has a rape conviction rate of 1%.

Edited

I also agree with your points about the “adultification” and sexualisation of young girls and the deep rooted misogynistic attitudes and treatment they experienced.

However this particular scandal has an added dimension-

  1. authorities were afraid of being labelled racist and therefore were reluctant to see patterns in the offenders ethnic profile.
  2. Political leaders were reluctant to speak out because it might have an impact on their electoral support .
OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 16:51

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 16:49

Are you suggesting that the Labour party turned a blind eye to mass child sex abuse because they wanted the Pakistani/heritage vote?

I am suggesting the pattern of offending was not properly identified and I am explaining why that might be the case …

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 16:52

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 16:51

I am suggesting the pattern of offending was not properly identified and I am explaining why that might be the case …

So it's a "suggestion" with no evidence?

TeenagersAngst · 17/06/2025 16:54

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 16:45

Again I disagree. Are you suggesting that only grooming gangs made up of one particular ethnicity are misogynist? This is why I asked why ethnicity was important as people seemed fixated on it at the expense of everything else. It's important in the sense that people didn't act because of fear of racial tension. However, I view all sexual predators the same.

It’s short sighted to view all sexual predators as the same. They may all have misogyny in common but there will be additional factors that are equally important to consider.

The reason so many people are ‘fixated’ on ethnicity in this case is probably due to frustration at the denial and gaslighting that has gone on for years.

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 16:57

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 16:52

So it's a "suggestion" with no evidence?

Jess Philips on Newsnight

Safeguarding minister Jess Phillips appeared onNewsnight last night to discuss the Casey report to deny ever turning a “blind eye” to the rape gangs. She said those who wanted to speak out were “being told to keep it it quiet by people from within the Labour party and Maggie Oliver, herself a whistleblower, says Labour and the Tories have both turned a blind eye… not me – I have never turned a blind eye I never would shy away from calling a problem what it is.

Well … ? That’s Jess Philips saying people were being told to keep it quiet in the Labour Party.
Maggie Oliver says both parties are guilty.
I trust Maggie Oliver in this

C8H10N4O2 · 17/06/2025 16:57

Barr77 · 17/06/2025 13:44

Working-class communities of all backgrounds face serious systemic neglect — that’s not in question. But dismissing what happened to white working-class girls just because others also suffered too isn’t right.

The Casey report makes it clear: white working-class girls were specifically and deliberately targeted in many grooming gang cases. Offenders saw them as “easy,” “available,” and less likely to be protected or believed. That perception came from deep-seated class prejudice and racialised misogyny — the idea that white girls from poor communities were worthless. These girls weren’t treated as victims; they were dismissed as “slags” or “making choices,” even by the very professionals meant to protect them.

No one is saying they’re the only ones suffering. But they’re often amongst the least listened to, most written off, and politically inconvenient. These communities are rarely at the centre of national conversations about injustice. They’re often spoken about, not listened to — and when they do speak, they’re painted as reactionary or backward. That makes them some of the easiest to dismiss — not because their suffering is less real, but because it doesn’t fit the usual narrative.

We can acknowledge the shared struggles of all working-class communities without erasing the specific ways some were targeted.

The problem with making the Rotherham case all about white WC girls is that it dismisses the same games meting out the same treatment to the Mipuri girls. The Mipuri girls, like the white girls were preyed on by the same grooming gangs because they were particularly vulnerable in some way. They were also treated as slags, slappers and otherwise of no value by both the professionals and the abusers.

Class is absolutely critical in this because whatever the race of the child victims, they are overwhelmingly seen as low status by public services and even at times their own communities.

The WC boys abused in similar scandals (not least in Rotherham) were also chosen for their vulnerability. In that case the abusers were mostly white MC professionals and businessmen, including in the public sector. The victims were a mix of white and mixed race on the whole, often in care. The council then wasn’t worried about racism - the men were too “important” to even question them.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 17:00

TeenagersAngst · 17/06/2025 16:54

It’s short sighted to view all sexual predators as the same. They may all have misogyny in common but there will be additional factors that are equally important to consider.

The reason so many people are ‘fixated’ on ethnicity in this case is probably due to frustration at the denial and gaslighting that has gone on for years.

What additional factors that have to do with ethnicity?

We know they were part of the nighttime economy, taxi drivers and fast food operators. They groomed using the 'boyfriend' method. They plied the girls with drugs and alcohol. How is that different to any other paedophile grooming gang?

I haven't seen denial or gaslighting in many years. There have been reports and investigations going on for over 20 years which all said the same thing.

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 17:00

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 16:52

So it's a "suggestion" with no evidence?

https://unherd.com/2025/06/labours-grooming-gang-shame/

Copied and pasted as you asked for evidence

” But though Cooper did her best to sound angry as she noted that we have “lost more than a decade” in addressing the crimes, in fact, we lost far more than that. The omerta was, and still is, stifling. Newspaper clippings hint at abuses dating all the way back to the Seventies; when far-Right groups raised the alarm in the early 2000s, they were mocked for their accents, accused of stirring up hatred, and censored. When Left-wingers and moderates noticed, they didn’t fare much better: Julie Bindel broke the first mainstream press account almost 20 years ago, only to be called racist for her efforts. The late Times journalist Andrew Norfolk paid a professional price for investigating; former Labour MPs Ann Cryer and Sarah Champion faced stonewalling and harassment. And all that time, our institutions went on grimly pretending everything was basically fine. Why?”

Labour’s grooming gang shame

https://unherd.com/2025/06/labours-grooming-gang-shame/

Fetaface · 17/06/2025 17:05

TeenagersAngst · 17/06/2025 16:54

It’s short sighted to view all sexual predators as the same. They may all have misogyny in common but there will be additional factors that are equally important to consider.

The reason so many people are ‘fixated’ on ethnicity in this case is probably due to frustration at the denial and gaslighting that has gone on for years.

Yes and there are factors relating to ethnicity that need discussing like people treating brown and black victims as not important to be included in support leading to many not getting help even today they are not able to access and sometimes not knowing they were abused until later on due to lack of sex education means that they have felt forgotten. It is true that ethnicity does impact on victims seeking help if they are viewed as 'less than' important than other victims. Absolutely agree with this needs discussing and it is one thing that many victims have expressed. That they feel ignored and less than because of their ethnicity.

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 17:05

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 17:00

What additional factors that have to do with ethnicity?

We know they were part of the nighttime economy, taxi drivers and fast food operators. They groomed using the 'boyfriend' method. They plied the girls with drugs and alcohol. How is that different to any other paedophile grooming gang?

I haven't seen denial or gaslighting in many years. There have been reports and investigations going on for over 20 years which all said the same thing.

”I haven't seen denial or gaslighting in many years”
You don’t think that Maggie Oliver might be more well informed than you on this issue.
She says there has been constant denial and gaslighting.

Clavinova · 17/06/2025 17:06

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 16:36

Yes - absolutely. The anger should not be directed at whole communities. The anger is for the perpetrators and the ( non Pakistani) people who covered up and turned a blind eye .

Presumably there are at least some people from within the Pakistani community who turned a blind eye or some councillors and community leaders involved in the cover up as well? It's naive to think otherwise.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 17/06/2025 17:06

Fortunately I am relieved that we have some of the common but ignored knowledges published in an official source ...

So sm I, @ThePhantomoftheEcobubbleOpera, but TBH I'm more concerned over what's going to be done about it, and I'm not convinced yet another inquiry - used as they often are to avoid action "while the results are awaited" and for the complicit to remove themselves from the firing line - will help

For example the collection of more reliable data's already been called for repeatedly, yet years down the line it remains an issue, so what reason is there to suppose it will be different this time?

C8H10N4O2 · 17/06/2025 17:06

Barr77 · 17/06/2025 16:23

Ah! Owen of the Chavs: the ‘demonisation of the working class’ -Jones.. Champion and spokesperson until the realisation there was little political currency to be had for sticking up for the focus of his first book.

He's much more progressive now, you see; there are worthier victims of the “culture wars” who are more deserving of his solidarity.

Spokesperson for the masses whilst being one of Labour’s MC nepo babies. One our finest brocialists.

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 17:07

Anyway - the poll is reassuring. The vast majority of people are not taken in by the deniers and gaslighters

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 17:08

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 16:57

Jess Philips on Newsnight

Safeguarding minister Jess Phillips appeared onNewsnight last night to discuss the Casey report to deny ever turning a “blind eye” to the rape gangs. She said those who wanted to speak out were “being told to keep it it quiet by people from within the Labour party and Maggie Oliver, herself a whistleblower, says Labour and the Tories have both turned a blind eye… not me – I have never turned a blind eye I never would shy away from calling a problem what it is.

Well … ? That’s Jess Philips saying people were being told to keep it quiet in the Labour Party.
Maggie Oliver says both parties are guilty.
I trust Maggie Oliver in this

That's not evidence, it's an anecdote. It's certainly not evidence of all MPs covering up CSA. However, we'll see what the inquiry reveals.

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 17:08

Clavinova · 17/06/2025 17:06

Presumably there are at least some people from within the Pakistani community who turned a blind eye or some councillors and community leaders involved in the cover up as well? It's naive to think otherwise.

Yes - I agree. I’d definitely suspect councillors and community leaders have colluded in cover ups .

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 17:10

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 17:08

That's not evidence, it's an anecdote. It's certainly not evidence of all MPs covering up CSA. However, we'll see what the inquiry reveals.

No one said “all MPs” 😆
I gave you a quote from Jess Philips and it’s not enough….
You’re clutching at straws.
Yes . Let’s see what the enquiry brings. Transparency and justice I hope

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 17:12

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 17:10

No one said “all MPs” 😆
I gave you a quote from Jess Philips and it’s not enough….
You’re clutching at straws.
Yes . Let’s see what the enquiry brings. Transparency and justice I hope

You said the Labour Party covered up CSA for votes.

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 17:23

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 17:12

You said the Labour Party covered up CSA for votes.

Certainly is looking that way isn’t it?

MiloMinderbinder925 · 17/06/2025 17:24

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/06/2025 17:23

Certainly is looking that way isn’t it?

No its not.

LakieLady · 17/06/2025 17:30

Steakbreake · 15/06/2025 13:19

What the fuck is this comment? Who gives a shit what he says? What does a 62 year old man know about all those girls being traumatised? A 62 year old man from the same country as most of the perpetrators?

Who died and made him king?

When did Birmingham become a country?

Needacupofteaandcrackers · 17/06/2025 17:56

The Sikh community has been warning about this for years

Fetaface · 17/06/2025 18:35

Yes they have but on here that isn't to be spoken about. Someone will be along soon to tell you off for saying that Needacupofteaandcrackers

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