DD has said she will never view me as a mum

[Strangersev]

Hi all, this could be long and I want to say straight away I know I messed up, I just don’t know how to reply, I’m not looking to minimise my actions.

So background, my ex husband and I both had jobs which involved moving relatively frequently, we had one child, and over the 18 years of her childhood she lived in 5 countries (Canada, Italy, Singapore, Switzerland, and France). I am British, her dad is Italian.

For the first 10 years of her life I’d say we were a very happy family, we lived in Italy for 7 years which provided a real period of stability. We then moved to Singapore, this was more for my sake than my ex husbands but much like Canada in the early years he was willing to make a compromise for my career. However here is where cracks started to form. We lost our way with parenting, would have loud and dramatic fights and often our poor little DD would be witness. I regret this period deeply and 2 years later we moved to Switzerland, this was meant to be a happy middle ground, good career opportunities for us both and DD hadn’t really enjoyed life in Singapore so we thought this may be more familiar.

My ex husband immediately started having an affair, I knew but for 2 years just allowed it to happen. I lied to our DD about him working late when I knew he was with her, I didn’t question or press him on where he was, however 2 years in I came home to them in our bed. This was my breaking point, I spiralled, had a mental breakdown and went into a deep depression. I decided for 6 months I’d move back to my parents home in the uk, my husband and I agreed we would divorce. We spoke to DD and she insisted she wasn’t moving again, she liked Geneva, she was happy at school. I accepted that 6 months apart from her would be a sacrifice worth making. The 6 months passed and I was offered a dream role in Paris. My mental health wasn’t great still, I felt selfishly like I needed to make a decision that was best for me, so I took the job. I asked DD to move with me, she refused. Geneva to Paris was a very manageable distance though, I spent all the holidays with her and we had a lovely time. I do realise now I was saying horrible things about her dad to her during this time and that was immature and cruel of me.

Once DD finished that phase of schooling at 16, her dad got offered a job in Luxembourg which he decided he was going to take. DD was offered Paris or Luxembourg for her diploma years and settled on Paris. I think upon reflection this was very little to do with me and more that for a 16 year old girl Paris is perhaps the more inspirational place to live. I thought her living with me again would be wonderful but the reality was she took 7 subjects for her diploma instead of 6 (wanted to take all her languages) and the time taken up by other elements of the IB diploma meant she was never really home, distance grew between us massively in this time. I started a new relationship which at the time I didn’t feel guilty for as she was really never home in the week and on weekends she’s often want to go to her dads.

DD then took a gap year, and after that went to university in the UK. She is now graduating this summer.

I met up with her for lunch yesterday. She told me about the masters she will be doing, how excited she is to move back to Italy. I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times. She always spends Christmas with her dad, spent summers travelling so it felt difficult to see her. I asked her jokingly if she felt more “British” after her 3 years and she said not at all. She is a third culture kid but If asked to pick she would always say she is Italian. I was hurt by this initially and told her this. She then said “I don’t even really view you as a mum”. This broke my heart I started to cry and she said she was best going.

She messaged me this morning explaining that she can’t view me as a mum as when she was 14-16 I messed with her head. I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone. She listed all the ways her dad has been a more selfless parent and more supportive parent.

I am now sad heartbroken and stunned, I don’t really know how to reply? Of course I can and will apologise and I don’t plan to defend my version of events but I feel like I should at least explain?

AIBU to feel like I should explain my side of the story to her? Or have I been ridiculously selfish and this is a result of my own actions?

Any advice much appreciated/

My mum left me in my hometown with my Dad and moved away for a new relationship when I was 12. I did see her but she was absent from my day to day life.
She is my mum but doesn't feel like one and we aren't naturally close. Unfortunately nothing can replace those teen years without having a mum.

Poor girl. What a tough time. She seems to have come through it, and credit to her for forging her own path and being successful so far.
Just leave it. I don't think it'll do any good talking to her. She may want a relationship at some point in the future.

Whilst I feel sympathy for your breakdown and what your ex did thats where it ends.

You basically abandoned your daughter. I also understand why you said what you did about your ex and whilst its true he was cruel for cheating he is still your DD's dad and saying so to her was massively out of line.

I can totally relate with how your DD feels and why she doesn't see you as a mother. From her perspective her parents divorced, you were incredibly selfish abandoning and never prioritising her and now years later you've realised your mistake and now want to play mum when she's finally in a happier place. I would guess she feels its too little too late.

Both of my parents acted incredibly selfish when they split and the result was I'm NC with my father and LC with my mother who is absolutely baffled as to why I'm so angry and resentful at her and she makes all the excuses under the sun why she was selfish and basically abandoned her kids. Don't bother with explanations OP your DD will see it as excuses.

I think you need to be honest and just own it that you realise how selfish you were and totally understand why she feels that way but whilst you can't change the past you will always be there for her if she ever needs anything.

Reach out to her slowly, send texts or phone once a week asking how she is, build it up maybe she might be more receptive if you go slowly but also you need realise that the damage may not be fixable and you might not get the relationship you desire with your daughter. I don't mean that harshly either but unfortunately some things aren't completely fixable. At least you want to fix your mistakes and try to make it up to her not many selfish parents are that self aware of what they did my own included.

Whether other posters agree with you or not OP is irrelevant. The point is your DD has made it very clear she doesn't think or feel you were a good mother. The only way you stand a chance of any improvement is if you listen to what she has to say and apologise. She's told you she didn't like all the moving around but you keep saying it was great for her, because she now speaks 3 languages. That is just a by product of her experience which she is now able to capitalise on, it doesn't mean she enjoyed it. You sound very much like you expect her to be responsible for your happiness - she moved to Paris, but I barely saw her, so i started a new relationship. What do you think being a good mum looks like from this point OP?

She is young you have time. Dont worry about the past. Just build on what you do have . And in time she will see you as her mum.

"I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times"
How long did it take you to realise this? You sound entirely self absorbed. Just because your husband had an affair it doesn't mean he is a bad parent. You on the other hand used your anger towards him against your child and tried to destroy their relationship. I'm not surprised your daughter feels the way she does. If I were you I'd apologise profusely and not give a bunch of excuses trying to justify your bad behaviour. And do some work on yourself, the world does not revolve around you.

Don’t give up. It might never be the exact relationship you wanted but no-one is perfect. Just be there for her and spend some time with her when you can. Acknowledge her feelings and don’t try to force a closer relationship, it will come with time if you are consistent.

Now isn’t time for platitudes
You have no idea how it’ll work out or how daughter will feel

That's not remotely comparable. You can't compare a teenager deciding which of her parents to live with to a mother moving to another country and leaving her child behind!

And if a woman cheated on her husband, and he in turn left his daughter with the mother to move to another country - and then badmouthed the mother in front of the daughter, even though she was the one doing the day-to-day parenting - MN would invariably say he was the more selfish one.

To me, you have been unfathomably selfish for the whole of your daughter’s life.
I don’t think it’s even worth you trying to explain/justify/excuse what has happened between you, because I doubt she is interested in the slightest.

All you can do is beg for a reset from now, and build a completely new relationship with her as though you have just met. She may be kind enough to offer you that much, she may not.
And tbh, I have doubts that even if she offered you this, your behaviour will e good enough to sustain this new relationship- you still sound very self-obsessed. This thread is all about you!

DD has never said she didn’t like moving. She has said she didn’t like mid phase moves and that is why she didn’t want to leave Geneva but she has only ever spoke of Switzerland, Italy and France in positive and grateful ways.

The thing that comes through to me over and over again when I read threads by women who are estranged from their families (eg the Staley Homes thread) is that what the poster most wants is acknowledgement that their feelings are valid and an apology. They don’t want justification from the parent and they really, really don’t want the parent trying to convince them that the version of events that’s their own feelings is their own head is wrong. So with that in mind, I absolutely would NOT focus on trying to explain or justify your actions, let alone try to talk her into seeing it the way you see it. I think I what you need is a heartfelt apology that you made her feel that way, acknowledgement that you never should have talked about her dad like that to her, and express a heartfelt desire to do what you can to hold a better relationship going forward. Do far far more listening than talking.

It upsets me that I have effectively lost her as a daughter.

This doesn't have to be the case. Your daughter has been very brave telling how she really feels. This may be salvageable. After you apologise wholeheartedly minus excuses, ask her what she feels you can do to build your relationship.

I am NC with my Mum and also don't feel she was a mother. But that was after more than 30 years of her behaviour and countless opportunities to make things right. I told her what I needed from her and she didn't listen. None of us speak to her now but she still claims she loves us dearly.

Don't be her. Take this as your wake up call.

I don’t think you should explain at all OP. Recognition that you treated her badly and a heartfelt apology but please don’t try and explain. My own “D”M does a lot of trying to control the narrative. It’s never helped our relationship. It says that she doesn’t accept how I feel and her feelings and version of events is more important that ours.

I was coming on to say exactly this. She’s likely to be hyper independent because she’s has had to be, as she didn’t have proper parenting especially during those critical teen years.

OP you know you’ve fucked up. Both you and your husband have been immensely selfish and self absorbed. Your relationship failures and divorce should not have been a battleground with your daughter as cannon fodder in the middle. And literally abandoning her for 6 months is inexcusable - I know many mothers who have struggled with very poor mental health but they’ve never left their kids and moved to another country. But what’s done is done and you can’t go back.

i agree with the advice to apologise unreservedly, don’t try to explain or defend. Show up as much as you can. Build what you can. But be prepared she may hold you at arms length forever and that’s her absolute right as you (both) let her down so badly.

I wonder if she was afraid of you dying and so emotionally distanced herself. It must be awful having a mother attempt suicide 3 times, and all the more so as you tried (but failed) to keep her in the dark about it. That fear may have been hanging over her head for years so it’s possible she changed how she felt about you to protect herself.

You make it sound like she had an actual choice in this as a child. Did she? Otherwise, what would have been the point of saying anything - then or now? She had to make the best of her situation. You keep putting your choices on her.

But she’s also told you that she doesn’t see you as a mother because of your absence and the disruption…

Stop being indignant. It will just damage your relationship even more.

You are probably right, we did make life difficult for ourselves. There was a lot of compromise on both sides, and on DDs.

You say that as though she was in a position to concede to a compromise, but actually you and your ex were forcing her /leaving her in situations that meant she just had to suck up less than ideal circumstances. She was nobody's priority for years - that's not a compromise, that's neglectful parenting.

This seems common sense.

OP….Parenting isn’t easy, we all make mistakes and it seems you made quite a few by putting your own needs before DD’s when she was growing up. I for one can hold up my hands and say I have done similar whilst raising my (now adult) DD’s. You can’t change what has happened but you can try and do your best to make up for what happened when your dd was growing up? I am talking more and my to my dd now about what happened between me and her father and trying to explain why I made the decisions I did…….especially the wrong ones. No one is perfect.

Also with you not knowing about her relationship, is this something you've never asked in 1.5 years? How are you/are you seeing anyone/what have you been up to?

One of my older children no longer lives with me but I speak to him almost daily through text or phone calls. I always ask questions about what is going on in his life because I'm interested, so I know what's going on even if he isn't the one to tell me first.

@Strangersev , everything you say is all about you and your feelings. You seem to be very selfish. Me, me, me, me.

Just apologise to your DD and move on.

WTF? In what universe is the daughter behaving like a spoilt little madam? Her mother put herself first over and over again.

It's hard to say the dad was less selfish when he literally cheated and threw it in your face

Being a bad husband doesn't make him a bad father.