DD has said she will never view me as a mum

[Strangersev]

Hi all, this could be long and I want to say straight away I know I messed up, I just don’t know how to reply, I’m not looking to minimise my actions.

So background, my ex husband and I both had jobs which involved moving relatively frequently, we had one child, and over the 18 years of her childhood she lived in 5 countries (Canada, Italy, Singapore, Switzerland, and France). I am British, her dad is Italian.

For the first 10 years of her life I’d say we were a very happy family, we lived in Italy for 7 years which provided a real period of stability. We then moved to Singapore, this was more for my sake than my ex husbands but much like Canada in the early years he was willing to make a compromise for my career. However here is where cracks started to form. We lost our way with parenting, would have loud and dramatic fights and often our poor little DD would be witness. I regret this period deeply and 2 years later we moved to Switzerland, this was meant to be a happy middle ground, good career opportunities for us both and DD hadn’t really enjoyed life in Singapore so we thought this may be more familiar.

My ex husband immediately started having an affair, I knew but for 2 years just allowed it to happen. I lied to our DD about him working late when I knew he was with her, I didn’t question or press him on where he was, however 2 years in I came home to them in our bed. This was my breaking point, I spiralled, had a mental breakdown and went into a deep depression. I decided for 6 months I’d move back to my parents home in the uk, my husband and I agreed we would divorce. We spoke to DD and she insisted she wasn’t moving again, she liked Geneva, she was happy at school. I accepted that 6 months apart from her would be a sacrifice worth making. The 6 months passed and I was offered a dream role in Paris. My mental health wasn’t great still, I felt selfishly like I needed to make a decision that was best for me, so I took the job. I asked DD to move with me, she refused. Geneva to Paris was a very manageable distance though, I spent all the holidays with her and we had a lovely time. I do realise now I was saying horrible things about her dad to her during this time and that was immature and cruel of me.

Once DD finished that phase of schooling at 16, her dad got offered a job in Luxembourg which he decided he was going to take. DD was offered Paris or Luxembourg for her diploma years and settled on Paris. I think upon reflection this was very little to do with me and more that for a 16 year old girl Paris is perhaps the more inspirational place to live. I thought her living with me again would be wonderful but the reality was she took 7 subjects for her diploma instead of 6 (wanted to take all her languages) and the time taken up by other elements of the IB diploma meant she was never really home, distance grew between us massively in this time. I started a new relationship which at the time I didn’t feel guilty for as she was really never home in the week and on weekends she’s often want to go to her dads.

DD then took a gap year, and after that went to university in the UK. She is now graduating this summer.

I met up with her for lunch yesterday. She told me about the masters she will be doing, how excited she is to move back to Italy. I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times. She always spends Christmas with her dad, spent summers travelling so it felt difficult to see her. I asked her jokingly if she felt more “British” after her 3 years and she said not at all. She is a third culture kid but If asked to pick she would always say she is Italian. I was hurt by this initially and told her this. She then said “I don’t even really view you as a mum”. This broke my heart I started to cry and she said she was best going.

She messaged me this morning explaining that she can’t view me as a mum as when she was 14-16 I messed with her head. I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone. She listed all the ways her dad has been a more selfless parent and more supportive parent.

I am now sad heartbroken and stunned, I don’t really know how to reply? Of course I can and will apologise and I don’t plan to defend my version of events but I feel like I should at least explain?

AIBU to feel like I should explain my side of the story to her? Or have I been ridiculously selfish and this is a result of my own actions?

Any advice much appreciated/

Yes he had an affair but the DD would have been well aware that the relationship wasn’t in a good place and Singapore hadn’t work.

Just because he had an affair and the breakdown of the relationship wasn’t awful on the OP there is nothing in the post that says he wasn’t a good father and wasn’t there for her.

14-16 is a crucial time growing up as much as the early days and the OP knows she wasn’t there and when she was was nasty about her ex even though all of the issues were between them and not about his parenting

You put your career and yourself above her every time. I hope that the money and prestige were worth it.

She’s put up emotional barriers to protect herself from the inevitable feelings of rejection that have arisen.

You can’t be the mum that she wanted or needed then, but you CAN be the mum she needs now and in the future. That’s on YOU to build that role in her life though.

Maybe ask her what she would like from you now. Keep in better touch with her with cards messages that let her lnow how much you care for her.

You left her, twice, first time fleeing from a bad situation but then not going back to her but to Paris. My DM left the family to pursue a career and affairs partner. I’ve a fairly decent relationship with her but that feeling never goes away. Excuse away in your own head but you will never change how she felt, ideally you will have a decent relationship adult to adult. Try putting yourself out for her, suggest meet ups? Events/holidays/experiences. Be proactive about and take declines in the chin.

Your DD sounds bloody brilliant, she might settle down young or never truly trust people and have a series of relationships.

I have DC, I’m not leaving them

I think your DD has been a very lucky girl growing up, she got to travel the world! The parent she should be angry at is her father not you! You were left raising a child alone whilst he was sleeping around and as a result, had a mental breakdown ffs! She is behaving like a spoilt little madam. If you were her father and had been gone for 6 months, nobody would bat an eyelid! I’ve seen people come on here and mention that their DC’s dad has been gone for multiple years, has reappeared and the responses have been in favour of simply letting it go and pretending it never happened! Yet as soon as a mother has a breakdown and takes a break, whilst not ideal, it’s regarded as the worst of parenting and it’s ridiculously sexist and I say that as single mum.

mental breakdowns, prioritising self, using daughter as therapist, everyone else is wrong, you are innocent, wanting to explain your side and be justified, crying and not accepting if daughter says anything critical or tries to begin a dialogue.

This is my mum. Is it you too? I see you’ve had difficult challenges but all I can say is : learn more about yourself, learn about empathy, try to understand your daughter, and why she doesn’t see you as her mother.

If you’d like to have some sort of a positive relationship, there’s still time. She is young. do what you can now to support her, not explain your side. You can turn things around.

I hope I’ve broken the cycle of poor parenting with my kids. I do this by listening to my DC, prioritising their feelings, appreciating them, finding out how they tick and how I can support them. Never in my wildest dreams did I think they would tell me all the time what a lovely mum I am. I simply wanted them to have happier childhoods than me.

PS my mum also clearly has various issues including likely undiagnosed ADHD and autism, making it hard for her to do some of this self awareness /behaviour change — medication might help with the adhd, but she prefers alcohol.

Break this cycle now with your daughter who was actually very brave to tell you what she thinks. No child wants to lose its mother or have her cry. Be the parent, be the carer. You can turn this around. But make it about helping her, not justifying yourself.

@Whistlingformysupper
Tbh OP it suggests she just doesn't know any other life and has no real place she calls home.

My four kids were born overseas (all different countries) and we moved several times between very different countries when they were kid. They have accents and people find it hard to pinpoint where they are from. If you ask them, now, as adults, where they feel they are from you get various answers but they don’t seem the least bit bothered by the fact they don’t have a set place they are from. It’s not that unusual. When we chat about their childhood they are all glad that they got to live in different countries. They’ve had amazing lives that are a million miles away (metaphorically) from what I had when I was a kid. We all acknowledge that there are disadvantages too but I don’t think people need to feel sorry for kids growing up in the privileged ex-pat world.

She may come to view things differently if and when she becomes a mother herself

I certainly viewed things differently when I became a mother. I looked back on my childhood and raised my children doing the exact opposite of what my mother would have done.

Not everyone has a loving mother who made them the number 1 priority

I do think it is harsh and manipulative of your daughter to say she doesn’t see you as her mum, and she should apologise for this. I mean, you are her only mum, for better or worse!

OTOH, she can legitimately say you didn’t prioritise her as a child and that she doesn’t feel the need to prioritise you as an adult.

You both should have an honest discussion about how you want your relationship to move forward, maybe with some kind of family therapy, if it is what you both want.

She does sound damaged by a childhood where big careers and money have been viewed as more important than stability and family time. It doesn’t mean you can’t develop a respectful and, maybe even close, adult relationship. But what you can’t do is roll back the clock and change her memories of her childhood.

Me too. I realised then what a profoundly SHIT mother (& father) I had. Given my mother always talked about what a very excellent mother she was, this came as a surprise… I simply hadn’t realised how abnormal and awful and damaging her “parenting” had been. I knew there were really nice mums out there, but my mum could be ever so nice in public. She changed when the front door was shut. I thought everyone’s homes were like this. You accept as normal whatever you have as a child.

I've got the father version of you. All I wish for is him to acknowledge the impact his selfishness had on me. Not make excuses. Everything else has always been more important than me. I would also like him to want to repair the relationship before he dies.

Try and think about that and how you might do that for her. That is if you actually care about her of course.

Goodness, was that really worth saying when the OP is already distressed and feels bad about the decisions she made?

My parents were never particularly invested in the safety or happiness of me or my brother.

It’s made us both very tough and independent.

Scraping these qualities from our shitty childhood doesn’t mean our parents did a good job.

You being selfish and not being around for her when she needed you has meant she’s developed other qualities. It does not mean you have been a good mother.

If you want to tell yourself this sort of story to make yourself feel better that’s fine but please don’t ever say this sort of thing to your DD. Her moving around as an adult may suggest more that she doesn’t feel at home anywhere and is searching for somewhere she feels she belongs. She may move around as that is what she has done her whole life and she doesn’t know how not to keep doing that anymore

she is still young and it sounds like she is maturing late, possibly because she is an only child so is struggling to develop empathy. There is still time to salvage a relationship with her. Especially when she has children of her own.

my own mother was much worse to me than you were to yours but I would never be willfully cruel as she has been to you.

It sounds like she was shielded from the worst of your MH struggles because you were in the UK. She may realise eventually that mothers do not need to be perfect and than sometimes putting your mh first is necessary to prevent suicide.

I’m so sorry OP , this must be heartbreaking. If I were you I would acknowledge all she has said, express how profoundly sorry and regretful you are, that you wish you could go back and do things better. Tell her how heartbroken and depressed you were at the time, that you couldn’t see beyond your own needs and so you failed to be her mum. Tell her that you can’t undo the past, but from here on out you want to be there for her, in whatever capacity she may still want or need. Tell her that you love her.

I hope that time can repair things for you. The fact that she was able to tell you how she feels and that you have been able to hear and accept it, it’s absolutely huge in itself. Because of this I’m betting you get there.

💖

You are probably right, we did make life difficult for ourselves. There was a lot of compromise on both sides, and on DDs. Italy for me, Singapore for them, Geneva was meant to be a happy middle and for DD it was.

Waiting 2 years for the divorce was my choice entirely, I didn’t want to disrupt peace, I convinced myself it would sort itself out when we settled. After finding him in bed with his mistress I had a mental breakdown, I tried to take my own life 3 times. At the time I thought we hid it from DD but later learnt we hadn’t. She was a hyper vigilant child, had incredible critical thinking skills at a young age and was able to read between the lines with ease. I remember when she was 16 and moved to Paris she said “please don’t try and kill yourself again, I don’t want to find you like that”. This was the first time I’d ever realised she knew about that, I thought her dad had told her but she said he never mentioned anything about that time or me much at all. He’d only ever mention me to her to ask if I was well. She told me she figured it out the second time as her dad had told her I was unwell and in hospital, they brought me some items I needed and she said she doesn’t remember what but she overheard things. She then said she figured out it hadn’t been the first time and wasn’t surprised the 3rd time.

After the 3rd time I moved home, I wasn’t able to look after her and I really needed looking after. I wanted her to come with me, she didn’t want to.

while I was home I was offered a job in Paris, it made me want to live again and I took it without really thinking. I thought DD would want to come with me but she didn’t.

Whenever she visited me I did badmouth her dad, I don’t know why. I think I was worried he was doing the same and felt I needed to fight his influence.

When she did move to Paris she was extremely busy, taking 7 subjects at IB Diploma level, including Italian Literature self taught and at higher level. When she wasn’t studying she was playing sports (had to for the CAS element of IB) and doing her service work and creative work. It was intense and took up all her time. She would stay at school until it closed, go to tennis afterwards or study. Almost every Saturday involved her doing the service element in the morning then getting on a train to Luxembourg where she’d spend the rest of the day and Sunday and come back in the evening. She was incredibly independent and seemed very emotionally mature (introspective, self aware). During lockdown she and I existed in the same space but she was still studying hard and decided to write a book. She’s a quiet girl, not shy but quiet. She never seems to speak unless she really has something to say.

During her gap year she lived with her grandparents in Italy for a while, did a season in Verbier over the winter and travelled a little. I didn’t see her much during this, I called and we spoke but like I said never seemed to have much to say, we’d discuss what she had been reading or doing, politics. She never told me about relationships or her personal life.

When she told me she was going to uni in London I was over the moon and expected we would meet up often. She would come to Paris and not tell me, or if I messaged asking to see her she would often say she was busy. As she had always been independent I didn’t think she was avoiding me, I believed she was just busy.

Now I understand I messed up and I don’t expect forgiveness. It upsets me that I have effectively lost her as a daughter. I only learnt yesterday she has been in a relationship for a year and a half. She just doesn’t tell me things.

I asked the do you feel more British question as I guess I want her to feel like she is part of my culture too. The wider family all say she is nothing like British girls and is more generally European. My own mum has even said “you wouldn’t knew she was your daughter, doesn’t look much like you, act much like you or sound much like you”.

I have been selfish I know that, it was never intentional and I do love her dearly.

This. You might be a shit hot businesswoman but you’ve been a shit mum. Compounded by crying when she confronted you, how selfish can you get. Good on your DD for having some boundaries with your woeful parenting.

Can I ask have any of the posters who are making comments here actually had a breakdown themselves?

And also there seems to be alot of projection and very personal responses that aren't particularly helpful and relevant to this situation.

People seem to be really hung up on the moving about, this isn’t the issue - a huge amount of families do this and their children grow up to be confident, well rounded, well travelled individuals, and very successful adults (like your daughter sounds). This is so much better than a resentful couple who totally gave up their careers for their kids then blame them and live the same boring existence for twenty years!! However it does take a strong, loving and close family unit to maintain this type of lifestyle, home is wherever they are together - that sort of thing. What the issue here is the instability of her family unit and you leaving her at a very critical time in her life (14-16). Your husband made a huge mistake, and that’s on him. But you ultimately chose your career over her, which is sad but it’s done now. I think you need to accept your failings, apologise, and ask how you can be better from now on. I hope things get better x

That’s a fair question, but really, it doesn’t address or even consider the effect it had on her daughter. Which is the whole point of this thread.
Refusing to be introspective and continuing to place her own experience as the only perspective, will not help her mend this rift.
Upon being told about her daughter’s feelings, she immediately became concerned with her own feelings… which sort of proves the daughter’s point.

I agree you should apologise to her. Her childhood has been one long disruption after another - changing schools, losing friends, changing countries, changing parents .... no wonder she is pissed off.

She has lived in some amazing places and had the chance to learn many languages - but what she really wanted was stability; and some sense of agency over her life. She has been a pawn in a game.

She does not see you as her mum, because a mum (or dad) is a stable focal point in a young life and she has not had that. So she has spoken her truth and I can understand that this must hurt.

You will never have the sort of close relationship that some mums have with their adult daughters, but that does not mean you cannot have some sort of relationship with her. The first step to building this is for you to explicitly state to her that you now understand what life as a child must have felt like for her, particularly that phase where you left her with her dad (whom you regarded as a bad person at that point) with seemingly (to her) no concern for her well-being.

Make a start and really work at it - the work is for you to do internally first. And then you need to take it slowly and gently .... she is not suddenly going to leap into your arms. You are going to have to be very very patient.

As we get older we all have regrets - yours have come home to roost in a very abrupt way with your DD's statement. It must be very painful for you. But the impetus to change things has to come from you - she has learned to do without you; it is you who needs her now and you will have to make the running - but at a snail's pace, giving her space to adapt. Expect nothing from her - then you will be pleasantly surprised by any progress.

The affair is irrelevant at this point. It has nothing to do with their DD

OP as many others have said - apologise for not being there for her. And mean it.
then try to be a better mother to her from here onwards
prove to her that you are sorry

maybe if you get close again then in 10/20 years time you can explain why you did what you did - but only so she can then know you better - not as an excuse

Keep on trying to build a relationship, even if she doesn't see you as mum. Be there. Relationships change over the years and she might want to be closer to you later in life, if she gets to marry and have her own children, etc. I am much closer to my mother, than i was in my teens to mid twenties. Just be accepting of the past and mistakes but build a future without expectations from her part to reciprocate straight away. Therapy might help you.