DD has said she will never view me as a mum

[Strangersev]

Hi all, this could be long and I want to say straight away I know I messed up, I just don’t know how to reply, I’m not looking to minimise my actions.

So background, my ex husband and I both had jobs which involved moving relatively frequently, we had one child, and over the 18 years of her childhood she lived in 5 countries (Canada, Italy, Singapore, Switzerland, and France). I am British, her dad is Italian.

For the first 10 years of her life I’d say we were a very happy family, we lived in Italy for 7 years which provided a real period of stability. We then moved to Singapore, this was more for my sake than my ex husbands but much like Canada in the early years he was willing to make a compromise for my career. However here is where cracks started to form. We lost our way with parenting, would have loud and dramatic fights and often our poor little DD would be witness. I regret this period deeply and 2 years later we moved to Switzerland, this was meant to be a happy middle ground, good career opportunities for us both and DD hadn’t really enjoyed life in Singapore so we thought this may be more familiar.

My ex husband immediately started having an affair, I knew but for 2 years just allowed it to happen. I lied to our DD about him working late when I knew he was with her, I didn’t question or press him on where he was, however 2 years in I came home to them in our bed. This was my breaking point, I spiralled, had a mental breakdown and went into a deep depression. I decided for 6 months I’d move back to my parents home in the uk, my husband and I agreed we would divorce. We spoke to DD and she insisted she wasn’t moving again, she liked Geneva, she was happy at school. I accepted that 6 months apart from her would be a sacrifice worth making. The 6 months passed and I was offered a dream role in Paris. My mental health wasn’t great still, I felt selfishly like I needed to make a decision that was best for me, so I took the job. I asked DD to move with me, she refused. Geneva to Paris was a very manageable distance though, I spent all the holidays with her and we had a lovely time. I do realise now I was saying horrible things about her dad to her during this time and that was immature and cruel of me.

Once DD finished that phase of schooling at 16, her dad got offered a job in Luxembourg which he decided he was going to take. DD was offered Paris or Luxembourg for her diploma years and settled on Paris. I think upon reflection this was very little to do with me and more that for a 16 year old girl Paris is perhaps the more inspirational place to live. I thought her living with me again would be wonderful but the reality was she took 7 subjects for her diploma instead of 6 (wanted to take all her languages) and the time taken up by other elements of the IB diploma meant she was never really home, distance grew between us massively in this time. I started a new relationship which at the time I didn’t feel guilty for as she was really never home in the week and on weekends she’s often want to go to her dads.

DD then took a gap year, and after that went to university in the UK. She is now graduating this summer.

I met up with her for lunch yesterday. She told me about the masters she will be doing, how excited she is to move back to Italy. I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times. She always spends Christmas with her dad, spent summers travelling so it felt difficult to see her. I asked her jokingly if she felt more “British” after her 3 years and she said not at all. She is a third culture kid but If asked to pick she would always say she is Italian. I was hurt by this initially and told her this. She then said “I don’t even really view you as a mum”. This broke my heart I started to cry and she said she was best going.

She messaged me this morning explaining that she can’t view me as a mum as when she was 14-16 I messed with her head. I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone. She listed all the ways her dad has been a more selfless parent and more supportive parent.

I am now sad heartbroken and stunned, I don’t really know how to reply? Of course I can and will apologise and I don’t plan to defend my version of events but I feel like I should at least explain?

AIBU to feel like I should explain my side of the story to her? Or have I been ridiculously selfish and this is a result of my own actions?

Any advice much appreciated/

OP for what it's worth - I lived in 5 different countries and went to six different schools as a child and loved the experience and am also completely fluent in 3 languages which has been a huge plus in my career.

I think it’s a natural protective measure for her to emotionally distance herself.
I don’t see that either of you prioritised your child.
You attempted to take your life three times. Please try and understand how a child would view these actions. An intense feeling of helplessness? Abandonment? Fear? Terror? Anguish? Perhaps, finally, resignation?

And no, I still do not get the impression you are prioritising her. Instead, you’re reacting from your own perspective and trying to use the fact she says she enjoyed travelling as an excuse.

Children prefer having present and stable parents more than they enjoy travelling.

The only response needed is 'I'm sorry'.

However, I'm not sure that you actually know what you'd be apologising for. Explaining yourself to her will not help. You've explained yourself here and it's not doing much to further your case. All it's doing is highlighting how you're not really seeing her point of view. You're not able to put yourself in her shoes. That's something that you need to work on if you want to have a relationship with her going forward.

I think theres plenty of errors you made but I'd try to have an adult to adult conversation..

Admit your wrongs - saying nasty things about her father when she was a child wasn't ok.

But equally - ask her what she thinks you should have done, she was adamant she did not want to move with you, should you have gone against her wishes and taken her anyway? Should you have stayed with a partner who was cheating on you?

You made your decisions at the time, based on the options you had and the information you had - hindsight might tell you there were other options, or it may not, but you didn't have that at the time!

This post is just another sign how selfish you are. It’s extremely outing with all the unnecessary details. I hope you have your daughter’s permission to post about her life and personal feelings for the entire world to see.

Your daughter told you how she feels and why, you needed to own up to it, not get upset because you can’t handle the truth. You can’t change the past, you can however, let her know, she is right, you made many mistakes and she was very hurt by them. That you regret not putting her before your career and endlessly bad mouthed her DF. That you cried with shame when she told you how she feels but you really want to be part of her life and you hope she can one day forgive you.

You validate her feelings, own up to your mistakes and would love to be part of her life, is all you can do, don’t try to explain or cover up, she doesn’t want excuses.

Dont be so dramatic. She wasn't cruel. She didn't abuse her . She tried her best. And yes thats not up to your standard of what trying your best means. But it was her best.
She can try to build on the relationship she already has.

My mum had a difficult relationship with her mum. My grandmother also had an affair and disappeared halfway round the world for a few years leaving my mum and her brother to be raised by their dad. My grandmother loved the idea of a relationship with my mum after my mum had children. What my mum said to my grandmother was the past is the past but if you want a relationship now you have to put the effort in and show you want it because I was the child and you were the adult. Apologise to your daughter and offer to do something with her that she enjoys. You cannot change the past but show her from now that you are there when she needs you and that she can trust you. Hopefully you can slowly build a better relationship from now on. My grandmother could never put the effort in long term so now she and my mum are no contact.

We are not perfect parents, most of us are getting by, but most of us have done a far better job than OP. It’s not nasty replies, it’s truth. OP gave us the details of her situation and it’s unreasonable to expect people not to be shocked and comment. OP wants help and she is getting advice - it’s up to her how to take it and proceed.
If everyone just ignored their own poor behaviour forever, no one would ever reflect and improve.

A mother is important at any age. You can rebuild your relationship & she may always claim you’re not her “real mother” but is this the truth or is it her articulating her unresolved anger and hurt ? I believe all can be repaired and that this is her way of expressing past hurt. When she has children of her own, that is a new chance to assist, be a great grandmother and your best self. We are all imperfect, we are all learning and growing and you had mental illness to contend with at that time. Forgive yourself, continue to love & improve & in time your daughter will hopefully let go of her anger and hurt & realise it doesn’t serve her. You clearly love your daughter & there is today and tomorrow and the day after - all you have to do is keep loving her, keep trying & the rest will follow as it should xoxox

I think you just need to say your sorry and you love her and always will.
I know in your mind you have what you think are good reasons for not being around for her .... but they are not standing out to me as a good reasons and I am guessing other strangers will think that too. By explaining you will be trying to make yourself feel better rather than her.

I'm also shocked at this woman's behaviour and her apparent lack of self awareness (still).

I’ve read all of your updates now @Strangersev and you just keep defending what you did , you are totally self obsessed and until you can find a way out of this mindset you will never have a chance to get things back on any kind of footing with your daughter .

As the daughter is graduating and about to do a Masters, I would assume she is early 20’s so an adult not a teen. And she’s perfectly justified in saying that OP isn’t like a Mum to her, because she wasn’t a good Mum.

In your place I would work intensely on building back your relationship. You can spend time with her swimming, talking, asking her questions. Start doing things you both enjoy together. Start prioritising her over everyone else op. Tell her you are sorry and love her deeply, and then show her what she means to you every day. That includes dropping everything and everyone when she needs you.

On some level she will still long for your love and attention, you still have time to make this up to her. I would stop at nothing to step up now for her.

Firstly, your daughter sound amazing, but I suspect she will be in and out of therapy for years.

What on earth were you doing prioritising your careers at the expense of stability for your daughter? Did you turn a blind eye to your DHs affair because you were concentrating on your career? The fact your DH compromised his career and was the one to keep looking after your daughter means he probably has a much stronger relationship. The fact you prioritised your “dream job” in a different country over rushing back to your daughter says everything.

Im sorry -you reap what you sow, esp with children - you can try and rebuild a relationship with your daughter but I suggest you get councilling first to recognise where you went so wrong on the parenting front.

I think this is a very good approach.

Your daughter's central point about saying dreadful things about her father while leaving her in his care is not something you can make OK by offering your version of events. Parents should never badmouth each other like this, but it has the added layer of abandoning her to someone you thought was a terrible person, which would have made her feel like you didn't care about her at all.

Well that or she doesn't know how to be grounded in one place.

Also...it was "the job in Paris" that made you want to live again? What about your daughter and being there for her? This tells me everything.

I do feel for you OP as lot of what is being written must feel harsh and very confronting but for once, I don't feel anything here is being dramatically unkind. Just accurate, I am sad to say.

Finally, when I read this thread my first thought was "wow...someone who has parented worse than me". I'm very harsh on myself and the way I bring up my kids but I know I have always done what I think best for them. I'm not sure that ever factored into your thoughts .

Yes this is so important to recognise too.

It’s clear you’ve no idea what it’s like for children having to follow their parents around the world. Definitely no party. We followed my husband to another country and I’m well aware of the difficulties it posed at first for my son. Having to leave his home, his school, his friends, to start again, especially adding in a new language. It was hard enough for me, let alone him. He’s happy now, but it definitely isn’t a thing to brush off as ‘travelling’ as if on holiday.

My DS is also a third culture child. He has mine, his father’s, and the country we live in. It’s entirely up to him whichever he aligns most with; I’m really not bothered either way.

OP, my mother left us when we were teens. We remained with our father. He definitely wasn’t perfect, but she never stopped telling us how awful he was. Years later, I’m now NC with her. Still in contact with him.

You’ve been given some good advice on here; hopefully you’ll take some of it onboard.

To you and rest that have said this - How cold and unfeeling must you be to absolutely not cry when something upsets you - I know I couldn't prevent tears flowing.

“I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone.”

Yes this is pretty messed up OP. This isn’t the time to try to explain yourself to her.

It’s good that she told you how she feels. For now, just focus on her and her feelings and really listen and hear what she has to say. acknowledge what life was like for her and let her feel understood, and tell her you’re sorry about the suicide attempts and you never wanted to leave her, and you’re grateful it didn’t work and you got to see her grow up. Tell her you are immensely proud of her and how she’s handled everything in her life. Tell her you love her, that you would love to still have a relationship with her and would love to meet her partner when she’s ready to introduce you.

In time maybe she will want to know things were for you and why you made the decisions you did but first you need to rebuild things with her.

It sounds like she has lived a life with a mixture of privilege and neglect and has come out of it very well. There’s no point beating yourself up about what’s past. Just try to focus on her feelings rather than yours for now.

@Strangersev what was your own childhood like?

It might be interesting for you to try to understand what being a mother means to your daughter. To you it might be about having given birth to her, provided for her, given her opportunities and cared for her in some ways. To her it might be about a presence that is missing from her life, not feeling prioritised or ways in which you didn't show up.

The ideals of motherhood are impossible for most women to achieve, and your daughter feels you didn't live up to them. If you can have a conversation about that rather than what you did or didn't do and why then you might be able to understand each other better.