DD has said she will never view me as a mum

[Strangersev]

Hi all, this could be long and I want to say straight away I know I messed up, I just don’t know how to reply, I’m not looking to minimise my actions.

So background, my ex husband and I both had jobs which involved moving relatively frequently, we had one child, and over the 18 years of her childhood she lived in 5 countries (Canada, Italy, Singapore, Switzerland, and France). I am British, her dad is Italian.

For the first 10 years of her life I’d say we were a very happy family, we lived in Italy for 7 years which provided a real period of stability. We then moved to Singapore, this was more for my sake than my ex husbands but much like Canada in the early years he was willing to make a compromise for my career. However here is where cracks started to form. We lost our way with parenting, would have loud and dramatic fights and often our poor little DD would be witness. I regret this period deeply and 2 years later we moved to Switzerland, this was meant to be a happy middle ground, good career opportunities for us both and DD hadn’t really enjoyed life in Singapore so we thought this may be more familiar.

My ex husband immediately started having an affair, I knew but for 2 years just allowed it to happen. I lied to our DD about him working late when I knew he was with her, I didn’t question or press him on where he was, however 2 years in I came home to them in our bed. This was my breaking point, I spiralled, had a mental breakdown and went into a deep depression. I decided for 6 months I’d move back to my parents home in the uk, my husband and I agreed we would divorce. We spoke to DD and she insisted she wasn’t moving again, she liked Geneva, she was happy at school. I accepted that 6 months apart from her would be a sacrifice worth making. The 6 months passed and I was offered a dream role in Paris. My mental health wasn’t great still, I felt selfishly like I needed to make a decision that was best for me, so I took the job. I asked DD to move with me, she refused. Geneva to Paris was a very manageable distance though, I spent all the holidays with her and we had a lovely time. I do realise now I was saying horrible things about her dad to her during this time and that was immature and cruel of me.

Once DD finished that phase of schooling at 16, her dad got offered a job in Luxembourg which he decided he was going to take. DD was offered Paris or Luxembourg for her diploma years and settled on Paris. I think upon reflection this was very little to do with me and more that for a 16 year old girl Paris is perhaps the more inspirational place to live. I thought her living with me again would be wonderful but the reality was she took 7 subjects for her diploma instead of 6 (wanted to take all her languages) and the time taken up by other elements of the IB diploma meant she was never really home, distance grew between us massively in this time. I started a new relationship which at the time I didn’t feel guilty for as she was really never home in the week and on weekends she’s often want to go to her dads.

DD then took a gap year, and after that went to university in the UK. She is now graduating this summer.

I met up with her for lunch yesterday. She told me about the masters she will be doing, how excited she is to move back to Italy. I realised that in the 3 years she has been living in my home country I’ve only seen her 6 times. She always spends Christmas with her dad, spent summers travelling so it felt difficult to see her. I asked her jokingly if she felt more “British” after her 3 years and she said not at all. She is a third culture kid but If asked to pick she would always say she is Italian. I was hurt by this initially and told her this. She then said “I don’t even really view you as a mum”. This broke my heart I started to cry and she said she was best going.

She messaged me this morning explaining that she can’t view me as a mum as when she was 14-16 I messed with her head. I told her that her dad was evil and cruel yet I left her with him alone. She listed all the ways her dad has been a more selfless parent and more supportive parent.

I am now sad heartbroken and stunned, I don’t really know how to reply? Of course I can and will apologise and I don’t plan to defend my version of events but I feel like I should at least explain?

AIBU to feel like I should explain my side of the story to her? Or have I been ridiculously selfish and this is a result of my own actions?

Any advice much appreciated/

She hasn’t said she sees no wrong in his actions. She hasn’t said her father was perfect, or that he didn’t treat OP badly. He was however the parent that was there as a constant feature in her life during her formative years, unlike her mother.

OP made choices that meant she doesn’t now have the relationship with her daughter that she thinks she should have, and it’s on her to take responsibility for those choices rather then fall back on ‘it’s his fault, it’s you must only consider it from my perspective and feel sorry for me’. If OP’s ex tried to justify his choices by pointing out OP’s faults and claiming she drove him to cheat then he’d be rightfully given short shrift, and the same principle applies here.

It might be helpful to remember that you are here. Not in the past - it's done. But not in the future, either. You can work with what you have, and what she's prepared to give, and move forward. I am on page 1, haven't rtft, apologies - I just wanted to comment and say that some sort of acceptance, acknowledgement that you've landed here, might be helpful. She sounds like she's doing well. You contributed to that stability in her early years, it hasn't been perfect later, but you're here, now. She has probably felt very unheard in the past, and you owe it to her to give her space to communicate and work her thoughts out. Keep the lines open, take her seriously.

This sounds really hard and I understand the need to explain things to her. I had difficult relationships with both of my parents after their divorce and each badmouthed the other to me constantly.

What I needed to hear from them when I explained how hurtful and difficult that was was along the lines of “I’m so sorry, even when things were hard for me I was the parent and you were my child and you didn’t deserve that. I’m glad you felt you could tell me, even though that must have been hard for you, and I really want to make things better and be closer going forwards.”

I don’t know you or your daughter but I would be very surprised if she doesn’t understand that you were hurting and struggling. The problem is, she likely feels that she was put in a position she shouldn’t have been as a child and feeling betrayed and let down by her parents when she was hurting too. Immediately explaining your side rather than acknowledging her hurt will likely make her feel like she did then - that she’s not a priority for you.

If you want to repair and improve your relationship, I would recommend focusing on the fact that she was honest with you about how she feels and putting her feelings first while you reconnect.

So everything is fine and dandy? So what's the problem?

Realistically, there isn't anything you can do about the past other than focus on building a meaningful relationship and apologising without any excuses.

I’m a child who moved around quite a bit too p. And my dcs are binationals so I think I have a good insight on the influence moving or not had on her.

Its not moving that was the issue. She was always going to be ‘an in between child’, between two cultures, two languages.

Its the fact you’re emotionally immature (sorry. I appreciate its very harsh said like that). She needed you in her life as a teen and you weren’t there. I’m not even saying there physically. I mean emotionally.
Just look, your dd tells you something really big. She is vulnerable with you about her feelings. That’s huge. And your reaction? To say it’s all her dad’s fault. Not one word of apology about what she has lived through.

Your OP is a long list of all the things that happened TO YOU. Nothing about her. Nothing about the compromises she made. The struggles she had.

If you want to change things, you will have to change.
Go to therapy. On yourself. Not to repair the relationship. But to heal yourself. To have a better relationship with yourself. To learn about boundaries and emotional vulnerability. To stop being dysregulated.
And then speak to your dd. THANK HER for her honesty. Aplogise for your role. Stop finding excuses and put the blame in something or someone else. Ask her what she thinks would be helpful. Tell her about you getting therapy. Fir yourself and with the hope that this will allow you to be a better mum to her.
Dont expect her to change her feelings. You might never be able to rebuild your relationship. But you can try. And you can certainly try to be a better person towards yourself (and others)

My experience of, and takeaway from, being a third culture kid is very different to yours. The daughter’s is her own, and it may genuinely be more like mine.

I think most of the commentators have the wrong doings on your part covered.

I would like to point out though, you said she is going to Italy and views herself as Italian. That to me suggests she is seeking a “home”.

We raised our children abroad at times, and know lots of families who moved often. I think for these families it is more important than ever for the parents to be present and immersing the children in their home culture. Little ties are what make the difference.

Who did more of that? Who did she support in sports as a child or which cultural traditions did she engage in more (pasta making vs Sunday roast for example). Where did she spend holidays?

I think she probably went to uni in the UK hoping it would feel like home, it hasn’t, now she is trying Italy. This may be a feeling that follows her for the rest of her life. Culture gives us a real sense of belonging and that is important for kids and adults alike and is an area many third culture kids feel robbed of.

Absolutely this

She hasn’t said she sees no wrong in his actions. She hasn’t said her father was perfect, or that he didn’t treat OP badly. He was however the parent that was there as a constant feature in her life during her formative years, unlike her mother.

Thats not true though.
The OP was there during all the dd childhood. She was just as much of a constant as her father.
Until the dd was 14yo. Then she spent 2 years with her dad but wo her mum (but that dissimilar to the EOW arrangement - aka very regular contact).
And then the dd spent 2 years with her mum but wo her father. A nice reverse of the previous situation.

It’s not the time spend in or not the life of the dd That’s naking a difference there.

I thought this too. And also replying to her text telling her her dad is cruel. This poor child moved from country to country, going through emotional turmoil and at one point left by you. She had to learn how to cope without you. You can’t expect anything from her, other than what she wants to give you. She sounds independent, detached but making her own way in life. I don’t think you should make it about you yet again.

if she doesn't "view you as a mum", presumably she has no expectation that you will fund or contribute to her extended studies.

She may come to view things differently if and when she becomes a mother herself

I agree with this.

Everyone involved could’ve done better and teen often compare their lives to those of their friends and most parents reflect badly.

Example, DDs Uni friends have never worked; She works all summer to support her studies, she feels this isn’t fair - I actually think it does her more good to work and earn some money and gain experience.

No families are the same. Just keep in regular contact and listen without judging.

To be honest, whatever came before, the interaction at lunch sounds off anyway. What were you hoping for when you “jokingly” asked her if she felt more British when by your own admission you knew she was unlikely to say yes? You then told her you were hurt by her answer, despite also admitting that the time in Italy was the happiest and most settled for your family and where she spent a long stretch of her early childhood- why wouldn’t she see herself as Italian? I think asking how someone feels then telling them you’re disappointed in their answer is actually letting them know that the question was never about them but about you.

It sounds like she’s been able to make the most of the childhood she had but can still see her relationship with her mother wasn’t optimal.

What is the current source of your discomfort? Are you devastated that you let her down or are you just upset that she’s challenged you?

Maybe Strangersev you could look at therapy

There does seem to be some sort of self sabotage going on.

Why when you have a happy and settled family unit you decide to throw everything up in the air and apply for a job in Singapore and when you get it, you take it and expect dh and dd to unsettle themselves and move with you to a different country only when no one really settles Dh gets a job to a 3rd country and everyone has to remake their lives their.

Something really bothers me regarding the affair.
Why take 2 years to start divorce proceedings

Why did you leave for 6 months. Surely if he was the one having the affair then why were you the one to leave and not set up any visitation to see your DD

Why when you decided to go to your parents, why didn’t they send you straight back or insist you fly back at least fortnightly to see your dd for a few days so you wouldn’t lose touch.

Why when you knew your dd didn’t want to move from Geneva and had turned down moving to the UK with you. You chose to get a job in Paris rather than Geneva?
All these decisions have led you to this point

Even when things were going well with your meet up with dd you chose to get upset about an answer she gave to your question.

Maybe self sabotage isn’t the only thing to look at but why you keep building walls between you and dd and if you see her happy your thoughts turn to how to bring her down.

You still aren’t listening to her op. She’s grateful for the life she had BUT that doesn’t mean she needed to do it being in the middle of a very ugly situation and being left by her mother. How do you think as a child she coped without you?As a young little girl?

I think if she has children of her own she will see how her childhood and the way both her parents treated her even more negatively.

There are aspects of my childhood that I knew weren't ideal, now I have my own children and trying to imagine acting the same way, I see those things as utterly unbelievable and unacceptable.

OP, if you do fix your relationship, be aware of this scenario and be prepared for a second wave of resentment.

Honestly you have been selfish.

It all comes down to money. Don't worry I'm sure her dad will help.

And here is the winner for the most heartless answer sprinkled with a total lack of understanding of what’s going on there…..

@FairKoalavery valid points and I’m sure op left out a lot more. How is the ex so cruel but left the child with him too.

OP even with your explanation of why you did what you did, what glares through is a mum who didn’t prioritise- her daughter at all. Something else always seemed to come first - be it your own health, a job, a new relationship. You just weren’t very present in her formative years. It’s a choice you made and I think you’ll have to live with it and try to make up for it now. You might be able to earn a place closer to her heart if you start putting in the effort you should have been putting in from the start.

the close mother-daughter relationships are the fruit of years of sacrifice.

What's done is done, and all you can do is look to the future. Your daughter has told you how she feels and you need to respect that. Apologise, without trying to explain, and try to build on your relationship. Keep the chains of communication going and make the effort to see her whenever she is happy for you to do so. Maybe one day you'll have a closer relationship, but you might need to accept that it may not be the mother/daughter relationship you want.

The Jesuits say give me the child till he is seven and I will give you the man. This little girl had a settled happy life till she was seven and that was in Italy. Maybe no surprise she feels Italian.

I’m with you on that, it was only when I moved far away from my parents that I saw how truly odd they were. Then as an adult my aunts and uncles all confided in me that they knew my parents were making poor parenting choices but didn’t feel they could say anything at the time. None of it at the level of abusive, just selfish I suppose. We can only hope to do better for our own children.