AIBU to be worried about my son’s marriage dynamics?

[MyCyanShaker]

I've noticed some concerning dynamics in my son's marriage. When I call him, he'll often rush off the phone as soon as his wife comes home from work or starts talking to him. Sometimes she'll even answer his phone when he's not around. When I offer to get him something, he'll mention what she'd like too, without even asking me if I want to get something for her. It feels like she's dominating the conversation and possibly even controlling him.

My son works overnights, and I rarely get to talk to him. When I do, he often sounds agitated, even when I ask him simple questions. I've tried texting him to check in, but he doesn't always respond. He's always been a bit independent, but lately, I've felt like he's becoming more distant. We've always been close, but now it feels like I'm struggling to connect with him.

They've been married for 5 years, and they've been together for 9 years before that, so I thought they had a strong foundation. I'm worried about his well-being and feel like his wife might be isolating him from our family. We've always been a close-knit family, and it's hard for me to see him pulling away. He's always been closest to his younger brother, with whom he shares similar interests and personality traits. They're close in a way that he and his middle brother aren't. Given this, I'm thinking of asking his younger brother to check in with him and see if he's okay. Maybe his brother can get a better sense of what's going on and offer some support.

I'm torn between being a concerned mum and respecting their marriage. I don't want to overstep or interfere, but at the same time, I want to make sure my son is happy and healthy. Has anyone else dealt with similar concerns about marriage dynamics? Should I be worried, or am I just being a concerned mum?

Do you originate from a non Anglo Western culture, OP? Because you sound like you might be from a non Anglo culture (as am I) where mothers can expect to remain an emotional priority in their sons' lives even after the son is married, and indeed the mother takes precedence over the 'new blood' wife in terms of importance to the son (it usually only works this way with sons rather than daughters).

If your son's married Anglo, then you need to accept that Anglo culture isn't like this. Anglos believe that a mother's job is to bring her son up to be independent and once married, to prioritise his wife over his mother.

As it happens, I enthusiastically embraced Anglo culture over my original culture because Anglos are less sexist, less patriarchal, and don't have the cult of the toxic overbearing MIL.

I think you really should accept that you are no longer a priority and nor should you expect to be.

This.

@MyCyanShaker

If she works days and he works nights, they might only have an hour together between her finishing and him starting and you're asking for a quarter of that time to be dedicated to you.

Ask him to call you on his way in to work / back home to catch up once or twice a week instead? When it is just him, he has no other "distractions" or people he'd rather see / talk to.

MIL regularly calls as I'm dishing up dinner. DH has taken to not answering and will call her back later. He used to answer, in case it was important but it's always something like "I've got your DD a light up fairy for the garden, when can you pick it up?". She knows when we eat, she still calls then. So he no longer answers, and although he intends to call back he often forgets.

She calls me in the middle of a work day too, and has then been known to call DH at work when I didn't answer because, work.

You need to accept that what you want doesn't fit in with their life and work out how you can fit in, on their terms, before they shut you out completely.

You’re treating them as individuals that you have seperate relationships with. They clearly want to be treated as a team. You need to adapt your mindset, it’s rude to only get your ds a gift on holiday for example. Everytime you push her back you are saying she’s not important and she is, she’s the most important person to your ds. It’s not surprising after so long of this treatment they have started to challenge this. It’s not about being grabby it’s about treating them equally.

my Pil always get us a joint gift or one each when they go away. They spend same on us at Xmas/birthdays.

in terms of contact a couple of phone calls a week is fine but if she comes in ask to say hello and have a catch up with her too.

we generally see Pil together but sometimes dh Wil see them on his own if I’m busy or I meet with mil sometimes.

if u want a relationship with ur ds you need to include your dil. Cutting back won’t change anything

Christ you're an absolute nutter OP. Of course if you buy for your son you dont leave her out. They're married, she is part of your family. If you deliberately buy him stuff and not her and they're chiming in asking for stuff for her its because you are being very rude to not consider her. I'm sure her family buys him stuff or them stuff as a couple but you seem determined that you dont "have" to buy her.....of course you dont but why wouldnt you want to?

Also yes if my husbands mum was calling 3 times a week that would drive me round the bend. I'm a mum of boys too so I get that when they're older our relationship might not be the same as if he was a girl, because males and females are just different. End off. You dont seem to be getting it through your head though that your son cba with you and is likely embarrassed with how needy you are and rude to his wife. Get over yourself and get a hobby.

There's an old saying 'Your son is your son, 'till he gets him a wife. A daughter's a daughter for all of her life'. And the bible says in Genesis 2:24, "Therefore a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh". This "leaving" does not necessarily imply physical separation but rather a shift in primary allegiances and priorities. Your son still loves you, but his wife is, and should be, his primary focus. On a personal level, I absolutely love our son and he loves me (and my daughter in law is wonderful) but I wouldn't dream of calling them 3 times a week. We usually have a lovely long chat once a fortnight unless there is some urgent news. By the time our son gets back from work, has dinner, has down time with his wife and children, the last thing he needs is me 'checking up' on him. Gently, OP, your expectations are rather high!

OP, you're his mother so of course he should put his wife before you! His wife is his priority. Life cannot be like it was when all your kids were young and living at home.
Why are you - seemingly - phoning him so often? And bringing things for him? It all sounds a bit odd, and I think you probably need to take a huge step back and give your son some space.
And even if there is something amiss in his marriage, it is absolutely not your place to interfere. At all!

Indeed. A woman who includes her father in her life, continues to ask his advice, accept his support lays herself open to being accused of being 'daddy's girl' and enasculating her husband, whereas she is free to turn to her mother. We have a strange preoccupation with seeing adult opposite sex relationships through the lens of partnerships, with relationships with opposite sex parents compared and held in rivalry with opposite sex spouses.

Children will always be a parent’s priority but parents are not always your child’s priority . This was the situation with me, my parents and my children- it’s natural
Your demands are probably annoying them
When you ask what your son wants for a gift and he asks for a joint gift then either honour his request or don’t buy anything . If your son is upset because you haven’t asked what your DIL wants then don’t cause trouble by arguing with him , just send him a suprise gift like a voucher - then he can spend it how he chooses .
If you back off a little then your DS will come to you . Carry on as you are and you’ll drive him away.

Yes - that’s too much. Once a week is more like it.
Take cues from your Son - sounds like he doesn’t want to speak as much as you.
I think you are coming across quite needy and it’s exhausting to be in the other end of that.

Definitely too much. Once a week, or fortnight, maximum.

Wow! If my mother called me 3 times a week just to shoot the breeze I would find it suffocating! What on earth do you talk about? What they ate for dinner? If my husband walked through the door of course I would say I’ve got to go now rather than stay on the phone and ignore him.

Asking for gifts is a bit of a red flag though. I don’t know anyone who behaves like that!

You are irritating your son with your insanely frequent phone calls and he is too polite to tell you to stop it. Do everybody a favour (including yourself) and call him just once a fortnight.
Btw I don’t believe your other son calls you every day. What is he, 5?
Are you just glued to your phone all day, good woman?

I think it’s rude to buy a souvenir for one half of a couple and not the other, when you’re a family member. It’s a deliberate and overt exclusion and the unequivocal message is “I don’t like you and I resent that you are part of my family”. Like it or not, when someone marries they are forming a unit and a partnership with their spouse. And your son seems to agree with me, as he has said this to you himself.

Sometimes if my H is speaking to his mum I chime in, but it depends on the topic. Sometimes he invites me into the conversation. Other times he reports the substance of the conversation to me afterwards- it keeps us all connected and I’m involved anyway to an extent because his mm’s welfare and her behaviour affects him and that affects me.
I grew up in a home where people could chip in if they all knew the person on the phone- maybe calling “hello” or maybe adding to the conversation. It felt friendly and cheerful, and inclusive- maybe your DiL is trying to be friendly and relaxed, whereas you want the formality of A Private Conversation With My Son.

I’m sure it was you who didn’t want to buy your DiL something from a yard sale you were at even though she was going to transfer the money to you. If it is you, you are trying to divide your son from his wife and it’s no wonder he is enforcing a boundary. You really do sound as if you have a proper problem with your son having a happy and close relationship with his wife, and in your shoes I’d be examining those feelings. I’d also ponder his choice to live so far away from you and to only see you once a year.

It clearly is, since your son is making it as obvious as he can without actually telling you not to call or blocking you! Have you thought that the reason your dil “chimes in” is because he has put you on speaker so that he can get on with other things while speaking to you, if I was him I would be sorting any post, changing my shoes, un packing my lunch container, walking round my garden, making myself a drink. To you those 15 minutes are important, but to him, they are an unwelcome intrusion into his real life.

What do you talk to him about? Are you telling him tiny snippets and gossip of your life about people he doesnt know or care about , or are you subjecting him to an interrogation about HIS life, which he finds unwelcome and intrusive? I suspect a bit of both, so the conversation ends up being about your need to know and your life, rather than a quick confirmation that both of you are still alive and breathing.

Cut the phone calls down to two a week, five minutes max, tell him you are well, ask how he and the family are, tell him about the weather, send your love, say “sorry son, I need to go now, speak soon.bye”

make talking to you a pleasure, not a chore and obligation.

Sorry but you need to hear this , your the problem.
I used to live 2 mins from my mum and would have contact with my mum, whom I love.

What? That’s not what I said.

OP, if it hasn’t been said before, might it be your son is like a lot of (younger?) people nowadays who don’t like talking on the phone so much? My mum and I WhatsApp all day long, every day, but phone calls aren’t that often. It’s easy to text here and there throughout the day with a busy life and kids of my own though (and a DH too).

My aunt calls me and it’s always at times like bath and bed time or on the weekend pre nap time when we’re out doing things with the kids - their hobbies etc. She has adult children but it’s like she’s forgotten how busy family life is with little ones. I often miss her calls (though eventually return them!) and I’m sure she finds it frustrating too.

Seriously ??? That’s far too much !

You sound like an absolute nightmare mother / mother in law. You are suffocating. If I was in their situation, and I knew your feelings about MIL/DIL M/S I’d think you were unkind and intrusive and want to be creating as much space as possible between us. Like 13 h+ worth of space.

do yourself a favour and back off.

Three points here. Number one, if I'm on the phone to my son & his wife has arrived home after work I immediately say that's........ home I'll go off now & catch-up soon. Regarding gifts, I have no issue with my dil suggesting gifts either of them might like & my son can also suggest gifts for either of them so no problem. Number 3. I do treat my dil like my own daughter. Of course she has her own parents who she would understandably turn to first but equally she knows I am there for her & my son if & when required. If I see she has something bothering her I ask what's wrong & she will confide in me. I have a very close & loving relationship with my son although I accept my dil takes priority now. This doesn't mean he loves me less.

I realise my story isn't the same with every mil/ dil relationship. I wanted to share the fact it doesn't have to be a negative experience if both the mil & the dil are willing to accept each other's importance within the life of a man they both love.

If my DH isn’t around and his mum was calling I would always answer it. Not sure this makes me controlling.

This is absolutely the same person as the Facebook house-buying deleting FDIL's response smothering MIL yes? Clearly in the US, the posting style, way of responding to only posts in agreement, use of the term "unit", general denseness and hard--of-thinking, is all identical. Whether it's a troll or she just has many different sons with DILs she hates I don't know. 😂

It's good that they trust each other enough to some times answer each other's phones. It is reality that people are extra busy - expecially if they work conflicting hours and don't get to see each other.

Of course a well mannered man would also ask if his wife would like a coffee etc.

I think he's growing up and you want your boy to stay keeping his little bro his favourite person and his Mum his favourite influencial woman.

His wife should be well and truly entrenched into his life by now.

Honestly with every post this sounds madder.

You admit that both DS and his DW work long hours and conflicting schedules but you expect DS to call you every couple of days and ignore his DW when she gets home from work?? And now you want to send in his brother as a flying monkey (because that is what you are doing)?

I have four adult DC, all married/engaged. I speak to them roughly once a week in calls, sometimes less, sometimes more depending on what they and I are doing. If it is not convenient one week we simply say “ok speak next week”. Two of the DC like to set a regular time, two don’t.

If I call and DC isn’t around then their partner will answer - just as DH and I always did for each other on our personal (non work) phones. It is a courtesy not an insult. If DH or I were on a personal call when the other returned from work we would draw the call to a close - its the polite thing to do.

If I am going somewhere of particular interest to any of them I might ask if they want anything brought back - they plural not just my DC. For Xmas/Birthdays I spend the same on each. I don’t buy lots of random stuff through the year but I might occasionally see something of particular interest and buy it. I probably do that more for my DC simply because I know their preferences more. I’m sure the DCiL parents do the same for them.

There is nothing in any of your posts which says “controlling” from the DW, you are the one wanting to dictate your son’s time and actions here.

The issue with the whole but if it was a women boils down women vs women and a lot of us women have said we wouldn’t want our own mothers being like op to us.

Women’s own mothers don’t tend to feel they are fighting against their son in laws for attention. Mums don’t tend to complain that their son in law treats the daughter like a queen or that she’s his whole world. Mums don’t tend to dislike their sons in laws for making their daughters happy. They would complain if he treated her like a skivvy and maid and wet nurse.

Fathers don’t see their sons in laws as competition either they love that he treats her like a queen and that she’s walks on gold, they only tend to dislike them if again they are treating their daughter badly.

Fathers don’t see their own sons loving their wives as a fight against their relationship either they are mostly proud they have raised mature independent men who love and cherish their wives and treat them well.

It is some mils who seem to see this as a power struggle and hate how much her son loves and puts his wife first and that makes her a bad person. Rather than the son a good person.