Family feud

[OneQuickPeachCat]

By way of background, I (55F) have a DS (58) and DB (59). I live with my husband mortgage free and our two adult sons have moved out. Our DS also lives mortgage free and her adult daughters have left the nest. DS and I live comfortably with our respective husbands.

Our DB has been living with our mother for the past 20 years, since his divorce, in the family home we have had for over 50 years. He pays the bills and is in the house with our mother every evening which is naturally a relief for us as she is approaching 80 and is showing significant signs of dementia. We have organised a carer to come in 3 times a day to feed her but I think she probably needs to go into a home 24/7. Due to some historic family issues (family business, threat of bankruptcy etc) the house is in my name. This means that technically our mum will not have to pay to go into the home as she has no assets. There will be a shortfall of £300 a month and any additional expenses (between the 3 of us adult children).

Once my mother is in the home permanently, I would like to organise the sale of the family home, so that there is some money in an account for our mother to cover this additional £300 a month and the additional expenses described above (glasses, clothes etc). The rest will be divided equally into 3 parts.

This will mean that DB will have to leave the house and find somewhere to rent. His portion of the money will not be enough to buy somewhere new and he has some debts he will need to clear first in any event before he can take out a mortgage.

I feel that once our mother is in a home, it is pointless keeping hold of the family home, just because my DB lives there. He can clear his debt and rent a small flat somewhere with relative ease. I guess I am somewhat resentful that he lives there for not a great amount of money whilst I have spent years paying off my mortgage.

Our parents never left a will and our DS is indifferent. Our mother is at a point where she lacks capacity to make a decision. No LPA in place.

DB is very upset at the prospect of the house being sold and that he will need to find somewhere to rent for the rest of his life. He works full time and is not entitled to any benefits. A mortgage at nearly 60 would be near impossible for him to obtain. He has asked if he can stay in the house for a few more years.

the question is…AIBU in selling the house, evicting my brother and giving him a share equal to mine and our DS, notwithstanding that we have very different financial circumstances?

Why don’t you sell the house, buy a flat with all of his share and part of yours. He could pay rent monthly to pay your contribution back. You would have an investment, income and he wouldn’t be homeless or have to fund a mortgage.

I think you need legal advice about this before you find yourself in a sticky legal situation that you don’t want to be in.

your brother and your mum are your tenants. Have you got all the official documentation etc in place? Tax liabilities? Even without a contract you can’t just sell the house from under your tenant.

think about the tax implications. Think about deprivation of assets. And see a solicitor asap.

I agree with this. You're in a legally more precarious position than you think, OP. How long has the house been in your name?

Does your mother actually want to go into a home?

My dad is in his 90s and has carers a couple of times per day to do personal care, and lift him in/out of bed. My brother lives with him and me and my siblings are utterly relieved he's there to look after our dad and keep him company.

He'd never want to sell his house and go into a care home.

And if he didn't have a house to sell, he'd end up having to go into one of the God awful council run homes that quite frankly, I wouldn't put my dog into because the ones him his local area are dreadful.

I think it had suited you to have him there, looking after your mother and I don't think that (huge, big drip feeds excluded) he should be left struggling. You have the house you wanted, sound to be in a better position in your personal life, and yes, you've work to pay off your mortgage. Why would you not find a way to give him that security when you have it yourself?

I would sell the house and suggest that you then buy a flat for him. I would also give him £10,000 or so savings. I would ensure that Capital Gains Tax was set aside before I started dividing it all down, and any tax implications of buying a flat for someone else was also taken care of

Really, this isn't "your" money. It should, by rights, all still be in your mother's name, and go on her care fees. You and your sister have your own properties. Set your brother up, make sure your capital gains liability is taken care of and then use the remainder for your mums costs going forward. Any left over, use to pay for the funeral when necessary, and split whatever left.

@CheezePleeze
OP mother is described as lacking capacity to make a decision and showing significant signs of dementia, with carers attending three times daily.
A cosy chat with OP Mum about going into a care home is hardly likely going to be a sensible discussion in my opinion.
Your father’s situation doesn’t sound comparable.

Could your brother rent the house for 300 a month to cover the fees? I'd be so reluctant to throw my brother out of his home, especially when he is coming to terms with living alone rather than with his mum. Honestly, if I could afford it I'd get him have "his day" in the house, and then pass it on to my kids as soon as he passes.

Take some advice on Finances, as she can’t pay her own top-up.

Also, you can’t just decide to put her in a home, and the council pays. She’ll need to be assessed by Social Care, who will make the decision about whether she needs to go into a Home. Her wants are also taken into account, unless she is assessed as lacking Capacity.

The Council may decided that she is best at home, with carers coming in. With your Brother acting as carer.

We went through all of this 2 years ago, when Mum ended up in a home … it was a “last resort” (and the correct one), everything is done to keep people at home.

Has she had any Capacity assessments. Also no LPA causes all sorts of issues (we were also in the same situation)

But with no LPA, I'm not sure the OP would be allowed to just sell the house out from under her, and force her into a home if she decides she doesn't want to go.

I would give him 18months-2 years to stay there as a gesture of goodwill. At least he won’t be able to say u threw him out and that’s plenty of time to get a deposit and a couple of months rent saved.

It's your mother's money and should be used for her care.
If she has ostensibly no means because you are essentially in legal possession of her asset, she will end up in some awful nursing home while you and your siblings share the proceeds of sale which should rightly be used for her comfort and care in her twilight years. If she had her mental faculties would you do this? Probably not! It's easy to take advantage of the situation when she has dementia. Hope your kids if you have any don't do this to you!

Thank you all, really interesting to hear other people’s perspectives. The shares are (using easy figures as an example) £100k each. DB has for an additional £25k from myself and from DS’ share to bring his portion up to £150k (and ours down to £75k respectively). I am minded to accept this but DS thinks this is unfair as DB was gifted a small property in our native hometown in Greece (think tiny village, one shop, one church). Flat is worth £20k maximum and as tradition goes, it always goes to the eldest son…

I think you need to take into account the fact that your DB has been a free carer for your mother up until this point.

I would be careful with this, something similar happened in my family - the rent was not paid, and then what? It ended very badly

.

Start charging the brother market rate rent for the house. A smaller place will be cheaper.

Wow i think your being awful. Your brother was good enough to put his life in hold and take over all the care of your mother and now you don't need him anymore you're chucking him on the street

Surely the proceed of the sale of the house should be spent on care for your mum, that would be my first priority.

Yes, this is sticking in my craw a bit. Your mother's money should be used for her care. Signing her house over to you was fraudulent, wasn't it?

I also think you could be a bit more generous to your brother, given the care he has provided and the fact that you and your sister are set up.

I'll admit I've got a bit of a bee in my bonnet about inheritance. It's one of the primary drivers of inequality yet fraud in this area is somehow not frowned on in the same way as benefit fraud. You are talking about it as though it's your money, OP, but it isn't really, is it?

The bottom line is if your mum was of sound mind she would never agree to this and you know that.

I think you are being naive to think the government will just put your mum in a home because you think she needs it. At present she has 24 hour care plus carers. Why is this not enough. Dont forget she will have to be assessed and recieve full funding.

You might have to sell it with a sitting tenant. 2 potentially, if there's no LPA you don't get to decide about putting your mum in a home if she isn't happy with it. Equally your brother could apply to have LPA and that would complicate things.

I think you need to appreciate that having him there full time saved the 3 of you a small fortune in care and offered a load of reassurance. You could even ask him to pay the £300pm shortfall for mums incidentals in exchange for staying in the home if you didn't sell

I think the kind and clever thing to do would be to allow him to stay but pay more towards your mother’s care home fees? Surely that works out cheaper than rent PLUS allows the house investment to carry on growing (rather than cashing out and not accruing any more value). Plus this is not a good time to sell. A bit baffled that you wouldn’t want to do the most lucrative thing for all involved!

Gosh it seems harsh to kick him out after all those years taking care of her. In that time house prices and rent have skyrocketed.

Thanks all. DB worked Monday - Saturday 8-6pm so I wouldn’t say he was her full time carer but equally having him there during the night is a blessing. She has started waking during the night, confused about her whereabouts, so he is up at various hours consoling her… DS is now of the view that DB had no other choice (financially) than to live with our mother following his divorce, so he should be grateful he had a roof over his head for so many years. I think I will need to take legal advice!

Let him stay. He’s cared for your mom and paid all the bills. Draw up a proper tenancy and he can rent from you.