Family feud

[OneQuickPeachCat]

By way of background, I (55F) have a DS (58) and DB (59). I live with my husband mortgage free and our two adult sons have moved out. Our DS also lives mortgage free and her adult daughters have left the nest. DS and I live comfortably with our respective husbands.

Our DB has been living with our mother for the past 20 years, since his divorce, in the family home we have had for over 50 years. He pays the bills and is in the house with our mother every evening which is naturally a relief for us as she is approaching 80 and is showing significant signs of dementia. We have organised a carer to come in 3 times a day to feed her but I think she probably needs to go into a home 24/7. Due to some historic family issues (family business, threat of bankruptcy etc) the house is in my name. This means that technically our mum will not have to pay to go into the home as she has no assets. There will be a shortfall of £300 a month and any additional expenses (between the 3 of us adult children).

Once my mother is in the home permanently, I would like to organise the sale of the family home, so that there is some money in an account for our mother to cover this additional £300 a month and the additional expenses described above (glasses, clothes etc). The rest will be divided equally into 3 parts.

This will mean that DB will have to leave the house and find somewhere to rent. His portion of the money will not be enough to buy somewhere new and he has some debts he will need to clear first in any event before he can take out a mortgage.

I feel that once our mother is in a home, it is pointless keeping hold of the family home, just because my DB lives there. He can clear his debt and rent a small flat somewhere with relative ease. I guess I am somewhat resentful that he lives there for not a great amount of money whilst I have spent years paying off my mortgage.

Our parents never left a will and our DS is indifferent. Our mother is at a point where she lacks capacity to make a decision. No LPA in place.

DB is very upset at the prospect of the house being sold and that he will need to find somewhere to rent for the rest of his life. He works full time and is not entitled to any benefits. A mortgage at nearly 60 would be near impossible for him to obtain. He has asked if he can stay in the house for a few more years.

the question is…AIBU in selling the house, evicting my brother and giving him a share equal to mine and our DS, notwithstanding that we have very different financial circumstances?

Who paid of the mortgage on your mum's house? Your mum and your dad? If so then the house is your mum's. Yes your name is on the deeds but morelly it's your mum's if she and your dad paid for it.
If your mum is assessed and deemed needing fully funded support in a home (this takes years if you need to go through the courts to get guardianship) then what would she have wanted to do with the house?
Surely she would have wanted to ensure her son who had looked after for years had a secure roof over his head?

Stop being bitter about your brother living with your mum later in life just because you managed to buy and pay off a house.

I’m inclined to feel the same op.

He is your older brother, he has been helpful in a very practical way to the family, you don’t need the house.

I would also get legal advice about the extent to which he and your sister could challenge your inheritance if the whole if they family home is in your name.

My relatives care home (residential not nursing or dementia care) was 6k a month when they died 4 years ago, probably at least 7k if not more now. I’d consider how much he has “saved” you being there to enable your mother to live “independently”
You also need to be careful if it is your house and they are your tenants, there are an ever increasing list of legal obligations you have to them that you’d be wise to have not breached. Electrical checks, gas, EPC etc. all need to be up to date whoever your tenant is.

This!

You’re screwing the UK taxpayer into funding your mother’s care when she should be paying for it herself, and all the while complaining about your brother.

When was your mother's house put in your name?
How many years?
Worry about deprivation of assets first.

Then put a good chunk aside for your mother's expenses.

Split evenly 3 ways but then deduct whatever the place in Greece is worth from your brother's share.

You've got kids to think about.
Old brother isn't your concern.

If your mother goes into full time care her asset's will be assessed, as she has continued to live in the property without paying you rent it will be deemed to be a contrived transaction, hence ignored by the local authority, the house will have to be sold to pay for her care, after all why should the rest of us have to pay for her while her offspring shower themselves in ill gotten cash.

I think you are being very unfair on your DB he works all day then goes home and deals with your mum all night.... and your talking about kicking him out.... Your comfortable in life so why on earth would you not want to help your brother out?

Has your mum been paying you market rate rent? If she just moved the house into your name then the council will likely see it as deprivation of assets and require it to be sold to provide for her care.

It isn’t just as simple as shifting stuff into a family members name. If it was, we’d all be doing it.

I don't know why people are treating DB as though he is some kind of saint. He's lived there for 20 years on a low rent, still manages to have debts, and is expecting his sisters to sub him even though they've not had his advantages (as eldest son, inheritance wise). Sure he's been there for his mum in this last phase, but that's a side-effect of him living their for his own ends for many years. I think OP is right to be pragmatic about the whole thing, prioritise care for her mum and the DB needs to sort out his long-term situation. He's been putting it off for long enough, assuming his mum and sisters would sort it out for him. Better to be clear, without being cruel, and have a proper plan in place going forward. Him being allowed to stay on for a few years is not a plan. It just kicks the can down the road as he's been doing for two decades and could do indefinitely unless his more organised sisters take the reigns and manage this.

When your DM goes into care, the Council would normally sell the house to pay for it but as the house is now in your name this could be classed as deprivation of assets.

OP sounds like she's across all that - if they've already put the house in her name for historic reasons around a business, which presumably involved its own legal dance, I'd have thought the time limits and legalities are all covered so that it's not a deprivation of assets. Or that the OP is aware of it all at the very least.

If you or your DS don’t need the money immediately why make your DB homeless? The priority is the £300 extra your DM will need for her care.

I don’t agree with dodging the care home fees by misrepresenting who owns the property. These are not morals we as a family adhere too. Neither would we make one of our siblings homeless.

That could be in 30 or 35 years time.

He's not going to be able to afford to keep up improvements on the house anyway is he? If he went into debt when he was paying a low rent then how is he going to afford once his mother is in a home?

I think he should move out sooner rather than later because nothing will actually change in the intervening years except he will become more dependent on you both financially. Have you looked at what the over 55 rental set up is like in your area?

So? Provided he can pay enough rent to cover the mums care home top up fee what's the issue?

Gosh, I couldn't kick my 60 year old brother out. That's cruel. Imagine the upheaval at that time of your life.
I would let him stay but make sure house was passed on to grandchildren.

The mortgage free house was transferred into your name solely for tax reasons. I think you personally may be liable to pay inheritance tax if you sell it?

Morally I think you and your other sister are treating your brother pretty shabbily. He has saved you all the expense of a having a night time carer for presumably years and given peace of mind as well as saved you from the alternative of taking turns spending the nights with your mother?

Of course this arrangement also suited him but as happens so often, these arrangements end up this way. You and your brother need to seek legal advice.

Surely your brother has a substantial amount in savings due to working 6 days a week and only paying bills.

You and your sister should both go and live with your Mother for a week each.

Your DB should go on holiday.

You will then understand what the man probably has been doing all these years for your Mother without saying a word about it.

He is working full time and being woken several times during the night and now is facing potential homelessness.

Have a heart.

Especially when you are technically defrauding the government having hidden your Mothers assets - Shame on you.

This is very selfish indeed.

Incredibly selfish. The obvious solution with agreement of all family members is for the Brother to pay the 300 pm in rent to help fund your mother's care (cpi linked say) and continue to pay the bills & upkeep for the house as he has been doing and to do so for as long as he wishes to live there himself.

And then if that's until his death that the house goes to his, your & your DS kids say at that time. Otherwise it's sold when he moves out and it's split 3 ways simple.

Smell the coffee OP. Your DB has been an unpaid for carer for your mother for many, many years now. I'm surprised the house is not in his name tbh. It's his residence, his home, where he lived with his mother who he looked after for several years into her dotage. You are morally and legally (I'm fairly certain) obliged here to see him fairly treated. For instance, I'm fairly certain he's entitled to continue to live in the house for starters.

OP you sound like a horrendously self centred person, who is way out of line on this. I hope your DB is treated fairly as this process unfolds, and he is protected from your awful selfishness. Good luck!

Difficult one, as i’d imagine the last few years for you and your sister would have been a lot more difficult without him living there. Selling the house with minimal notice is a little unfair. I’d give a set period of time for him, maybe a year or two. Depending how short he is from purchasing a 1 bed flat, could you use your share to purchase it and charge him rent? Sounds like your sister isn’t keen to give him 25k, and that’s fair enough. Though she should consider how helpful it’s been having DB to assist with your mother. No matter what the reason he is living there, that’s been a great help to him. Having his mother go into a home and lose his home at the same time will be tough. Definitely worth seeking some advice.

Sounds like it was years ago. There’s a time frame for this kind of thing, so it doesn’t sound like it’s a problem here.

I think that the current setup has been mutually beneficial for both your brother and mother for 20 years. He hasn’t had to pay rent or a mortgage- yes, he pays household bills but presumably your mother also contributes to them? Most people can save something if they’re not making rent or mortgage payments so he’s probably got some savings-unless he’s spent everything he earns.

Anyway, if your mother really does need to go into residential care, I think the idea of him paying the extra £300 a month as rent makes sense. He can keep the house in order, but you’ll be responsible for household repairs as it belongs to you. Your mother may live for several more years if she’s physically well so this arrangement could work well.

Perhaps eventually he may move into an over-55’s flat if the house gets too much for him.

If he gets £100k even if he rents that money should last his life time surely? Rent for 30 years at 2k per month ( which is high) is 60k his expenses/bills can be covered from his wage and presumably pension later on.

Alternatively if he needs 150k to buy outright you could put 50k in (if you can afford to.) But do it legally so that upon sale of his house it goes back to you or your children (plus a third of any additional profit) so it’s an investment that helps your db out.

I do think your db is unreasonable he’s had time to save/pay off debt and prepare for this time but instead he’s assume you and your Dsis will forfeit your right to inheritance and subsidise him.