Family feud

[OneQuickPeachCat]

By way of background, I (55F) have a DS (58) and DB (59). I live with my husband mortgage free and our two adult sons have moved out. Our DS also lives mortgage free and her adult daughters have left the nest. DS and I live comfortably with our respective husbands.

Our DB has been living with our mother for the past 20 years, since his divorce, in the family home we have had for over 50 years. He pays the bills and is in the house with our mother every evening which is naturally a relief for us as she is approaching 80 and is showing significant signs of dementia. We have organised a carer to come in 3 times a day to feed her but I think she probably needs to go into a home 24/7. Due to some historic family issues (family business, threat of bankruptcy etc) the house is in my name. This means that technically our mum will not have to pay to go into the home as she has no assets. There will be a shortfall of £300 a month and any additional expenses (between the 3 of us adult children).

Once my mother is in the home permanently, I would like to organise the sale of the family home, so that there is some money in an account for our mother to cover this additional £300 a month and the additional expenses described above (glasses, clothes etc). The rest will be divided equally into 3 parts.

This will mean that DB will have to leave the house and find somewhere to rent. His portion of the money will not be enough to buy somewhere new and he has some debts he will need to clear first in any event before he can take out a mortgage.

I feel that once our mother is in a home, it is pointless keeping hold of the family home, just because my DB lives there. He can clear his debt and rent a small flat somewhere with relative ease. I guess I am somewhat resentful that he lives there for not a great amount of money whilst I have spent years paying off my mortgage.

Our parents never left a will and our DS is indifferent. Our mother is at a point where she lacks capacity to make a decision. No LPA in place.

DB is very upset at the prospect of the house being sold and that he will need to find somewhere to rent for the rest of his life. He works full time and is not entitled to any benefits. A mortgage at nearly 60 would be near impossible for him to obtain. He has asked if he can stay in the house for a few more years.

the question is…AIBU in selling the house, evicting my brother and giving him a share equal to mine and our DS, notwithstanding that we have very different financial circumstances?

The house is in OP’s name, why would an LPA be needed to sell it?

Exactly, he should have been saving but didn’t.

I’m so tired of sisters being expected to subsidise brothers.

OP, sell the house, you don’t owe him anything.

Sounds like the house has been in OP’s name for a long time so this won’t apply.

£2k per month rent for 30 years is £720k….£100k really isn’t going to last him a lifetime

You don't need the money OP
Let him stay

I agree that you need to talk to a lawyer. He may well have tenants rights that mean you can't evict him. He isn't a lodger because you don't live there.

If the LA have reason to believe that the transfer to your name was done with the intention of avoiding care costs then there is no time limit how far back they can go.

@OneQuickPeachCat I agree with pp you need to check the legal position wrt the house.

Your DB is 59, have you looked at retirement properties? These are sometimes more reasonably priced, but beware of service charges etc. Funding the running costs and maintenance of a family home vs a retirement property may be considerable. DB is approaching pension age and his finances at 67+ maybe different.

Change can be scary, helping DB to move on is part of repaying him for all the time he has spent looking after your Mum.

The rules for councils are different to inheritance. They aren’t as fix and they can make reasonable assumptions as to what has gone on.

They will ask where mum is currently living, and they will ask for proof the the OP bought the house at market rate and where that money then went. They will ask how mum is finding the rent. They need to be able to comprehensively demonstrate that this isn’t just a wheeze.

It's not, but it would be needed for the OP to make the decision about the mother's ongoing residence. Without it, the mother herself (if she is assessed as having capacity) or Social Services (if she is not) would have to make the decision, or the OP or another member of the family would need to apply for Deputyship to be able to make decisions on the mother's behalf.

😂 I was not fully awake

Sorry you need to take your mother and brothers wishes and feelings into account.

No, she doesn't 'need' to do anything.

Too many women are guilt tripped into subbing feckless brothers due to parental guilt.

Sell the house and let him make his own way in life.

That’s a really good idea.

Legally the op does need to take into account mum and brothers wishes and feelings re care hone placements.

Assuming there isn’t a big back story, you can’t underestimate how much your brother has helped the rest of the family by living with your mum. Yes, there’s carers but they can only do so much. Knowing there’s a person there 24/7 must be a huge relief. If he wasn’t there, presumably your mum would have needed to have gone into care much sooner.

As others have said you need proper legal advice. It sounds like a very complicated set up. Once you know what you can do legally, I think that considering you and your sister are ‘living comfortably’, the least you can do is ensure your brother (who has put his life on hold to live with your mum) is well provided for - either by using the proceeds to buy him a flat (which he can pay rent on) or, as he requests, give him a couple of years in the house to transition into a new way of life.

I agree

Could you sell the family home to your brother 150k less than it’s worth?

She probably could, but based on her OP I'd very much doubt that she wouldn't be so inclined imho. She already says she resents her brother for having lived with her mother 'mortgage free', while he looked after that mother well for 20 years well into her dotage & worked a full time job by day also. She clearly doesn't value the full role he has played in their mother's care, the value of this, and that this is the home he has shared with his mother for 20 years and contributed to consistently during that time.

I may be wrong, but if the DB goes to see a lawyer, they'll likely advise him to look for the house for himself after his mother is looked after. He looked after his mum there into her dotage, he's paid the bills & contributed there for many years, it's his & his mums home & he's lived there with her for ~20 years I.e. it (or the residue of it) should really now be his after his mum's care commitments have been looked after, imho. As a bare minimum he should be allowed to continue to live there imho.

God knows how the OP's name ended up on the deeds but it's apparent it was to avoid care cost commitments for their mother, & OP's hinted at trying to avoid previous bankruptcy/ insolvency issues for the DS , & her DB. So she wangled her way onto the deeds through circumstance, and now she wants to kick her care giving brother out of his & his mother's home, while sending her to a state paid care home. She's just lovely, isn't she!?

Not a hope would I do this to my brother. I would leave her there and let it pass to my children when he passes

Mumsnet at its best. A genuinely out of the box idea x

Have you taken Capital Gains Tax into consideration when you worked out these figures. As you have two houses in your name, this will definitely be subject to CGT.

I would advise that you speak to an accountant before dividing up the proceeds.

Feckless? He works full time and is a night time carer for their mother.

Firstly your mother is going to hugely decline if you put her in a care home. Caring for them at home is the best thing with Dementia as the surrounding is familiar despite the issues.

Secondly any proceeds should be used for funding of her care.

You sound callous and ungrateful

Wow you sound quite heartless and horrible.

I would never kick my own brother out under these circumstances. Why not let him stay and pay you rent?

I agree with previous poster that it largely depends of the background of why this house is in your name. I assume your parents paid for it, so although legally yours you didn't pay for it, so I would think of it as hers. She had him living with her, so if she was still of sound mind, I assume that would still be the case.

I would consider whether your brother can stay there with a lodger to help pay your mums bills?

He does need to come up with a plan for what happens further down the line however.