Family feud

[OneQuickPeachCat]

By way of background, I (55F) have a DS (58) and DB (59). I live with my husband mortgage free and our two adult sons have moved out. Our DS also lives mortgage free and her adult daughters have left the nest. DS and I live comfortably with our respective husbands.

Our DB has been living with our mother for the past 20 years, since his divorce, in the family home we have had for over 50 years. He pays the bills and is in the house with our mother every evening which is naturally a relief for us as she is approaching 80 and is showing significant signs of dementia. We have organised a carer to come in 3 times a day to feed her but I think she probably needs to go into a home 24/7. Due to some historic family issues (family business, threat of bankruptcy etc) the house is in my name. This means that technically our mum will not have to pay to go into the home as she has no assets. There will be a shortfall of £300 a month and any additional expenses (between the 3 of us adult children).

Once my mother is in the home permanently, I would like to organise the sale of the family home, so that there is some money in an account for our mother to cover this additional £300 a month and the additional expenses described above (glasses, clothes etc). The rest will be divided equally into 3 parts.

This will mean that DB will have to leave the house and find somewhere to rent. His portion of the money will not be enough to buy somewhere new and he has some debts he will need to clear first in any event before he can take out a mortgage.

I feel that once our mother is in a home, it is pointless keeping hold of the family home, just because my DB lives there. He can clear his debt and rent a small flat somewhere with relative ease. I guess I am somewhat resentful that he lives there for not a great amount of money whilst I have spent years paying off my mortgage.

Our parents never left a will and our DS is indifferent. Our mother is at a point where she lacks capacity to make a decision. No LPA in place.

DB is very upset at the prospect of the house being sold and that he will need to find somewhere to rent for the rest of his life. He works full time and is not entitled to any benefits. A mortgage at nearly 60 would be near impossible for him to obtain. He has asked if he can stay in the house for a few more years.

the question is…AIBU in selling the house, evicting my brother and giving him a share equal to mine and our DS, notwithstanding that we have very different financial circumstances?

@OneQuickPeachCat you need to engage an accountant who specialises in this area. If the house was gifted to you, but your mum and your brother have lived there rent free, there are tax implications.

Then you need to separate what a moral decision might look like, and what a legal decision might look like. Once you are in possession of all those facts, you can decide which path to tread that balances those aspects.

On thinking further, there are also repercussions to being a landlord which you need to take into consideration. Additionally, the rental market is going to change considerably in the next few years due to legislation changes making being a landlord unappealing, and laws that come into play in 2030 which in some cases will make it impossible.

Rents will increase hugely.

He’s lives rent free for 20 years and hasn’t saved money. So yes, feckless.

This is deprivation of assets. This is the reason why some people are paying £8K a month care to subsidise those who evade paying for their own care. OP you already have your own house mortgage free. That house should be used to pay your Mums care, otherwise you are effectively defrauding the government and also all the other residents who are paying for their care.

I feel sorry for your brother, he has been a support for your Mum and is now working full time with broken sleep every night. I don’t know if he would be eligible for sheltered accommodation in your area but at 60 plus it’s feasible. The money from your mums house is not yours to play with.

So he essentially was in the house living with your mother for years, very convenient not just for him and for your mother but for you and your sister too. But now you want to sell the house and make him homeless essentially. Serms particularly hardhearted given both you and your sister have no mortgage etc.

Also, the way you describe the house as bring in your name, I'd check the actual legality of that before you proceed. Seems like it may be illegally avoiding paying for care.

What would your mother think? Would she be happy at you throwing your brother out🤔

Re. The caring aspect. I completely agree that the brother living with their failing mother has been v. helpful lately and saved the OP and her sister a lot of stress.

But, as their mother is under 80, she was only 58/59 when he first moved in. Caring for her is probably quite recent, tbh, he’s unlikely to have been shouldering the responsibility for years. I don’t really understand why he hasn’t considered his longterm living arrangement in all this time, surely he knew that the house belonged to you.

According to chat cpt, it can cost between 2000-4000 euro to legally inherit and sell a €20,000 flat in Greece, especially if you're a non-resident. Only worth doing it if it will actually sell. If it's in a useless area, or very dilapidated, it may be extremely hard to get rid of.

Your brother sounds vulnerable OP. I would be fighting to keep him in the house. Turfing him out at his age, and at time when housing costs are off the roof is unbelievably cruel. I don't believe you will have many blessings in life if this is how your mind works as what goes around always comes back.

If it's a family home then I don't understand why he needs such a big place to himself anyway. Especially if he's short on money, how will he afford to run/upkeep the house?

I'm confused. Do you own the house your mum lives in with your brother? If so, how did that come about? If you do not own it you are a bit previous to think about selling it and splitting the proceeds as Mum is still alive and so the sale proceeds would be totally hers.

"Caring for her is probably quite recent, tbh, he’s unlikely to have been shouldering the responsibility for years. ..."

If she now needs someone to come in to give her 3 meals a day at home, while the DB is at work, it's probably not been quite recent at all. More likely a steady decline over the past decade or more. So the DB has most likely been their mother's part time carer, overnight back up & weekend carer for the past decade or more. (That's 10 years part time work...)

In addition, he has being paying the bills there, and likely been handyman, security & great company for his mum for the ~20years, while living in her & his home.

This is still his home. He has paid towards it, he's worked in it and he's lived in it for 20 years. I'm pretty certain he's legally entitled to it also, after his mother's caring costs are taken care of. The OP should tread very carefully imho, if he seeks legal advice, he'll be favoured imho & it could blow up all their scheming in their faces & be a very costly experience for all involved.

Perhaps suggesting a lodger to live in the house & to pay towards her mum's costs & the balance going to herself & her sister for the next few years if he's agreeable to that. In the longer term, he should probably be allowed to live their for life (or when he wishes to move) and then, and only then, split the sale then between him or his children on death & herself & her sister or their estates/ living children at that time.

They probably need a legal mediator imho to work out a fair & equitable deal.

P.s. " I don’t really understand why he hasn’t considered his longterm living arrangement in all this time, surely he knew that the house belonged to you."

Firstly the house does not belong to the OP. Yes, she is listed on the title, but that is only out of circumstance, to avoid care costs for her mum & creditors of her DB. She did not pay for the house & has not yet been bequeath it. Yet she quite clearly thinks it's already hers!! And she's acting like that, hence the 'family feud'!
Further, her brother lives there, contributes to the house & has done for 20 years, with possibly 10 of those being as a part time carer to their aging & deteriorating mother.

Perhaps he incorrectly assumed he would get some credit for this great contribution & effort by him from his sister(s), and didn't expect her to act like a self centred, cold hearted, b!tch who'd dare to evict him from his home of 20 years at the very first opportunity?!

@ThatDaringEagle
My point is simply that it’s been mutually convenient for him and his mother and I can’t understand how he hasn’t accumulated significant savings over 20 years of not paying rent or a mortgage. For most of us, those payments over 20 years would amount to tens of thousands.

i think that there must be a back story that the OP hasn’t shared. She says that he works long hours as well so his financial situation, I.e., not being able to afford to buy or rent somewhere, doesn’t make sense.

She does own it and has for some time, she's said so.

She said in the OP it had been the family home for 50 years, everyone seems to have assumed that meant she'd bought it. I think she means it's the wider family home, as in her childhood home with her parents and siblings.

Nope, she said it was transferred into her name because of some historical family business situation.

Due to some historic family issues (family business, threat of bankruptcy etc) the house is in my name.

So it suited her parents to put her in charge of it.

@Cakeisbest Yes, it sounds as if her parents transferred the house into the OP’s name when they experienced financial difficulties or something like that.

Tbh, her brother would be in a difficult position even if the mother owned the house. If she does need residential care or when she passes away, it wouldn’t belong entirely to him.

Good point. It wouldn't belong to him at all and would have been sold to pay for mum's care, so this way he at least gets a chunk to get his own place. It does seem like he's spent 20 years there and somehow works 6 days a week and still has debts. How has he not had any plan beyond 'I'll be allowed to carry on living here indefinitely'?

Exactly @pinkdelight, his financial situation is v. odd. He clearly works hard and in theory should have significant savings, plus he’ll have his share of the house sale. But he has debts instead of savings?

If the house was in your mother's name I think it would be disregarded due to your brother living with her and his age. If there's a question if deprivation of assets this might save you. I think you do owe him.

I still think that if your mother does go into residential care, your brother paying the extra £300 needed and staying in the house for at least your mother’s lifetime would be reasonable.

Quick question for people in the know. If a family member lives in a house owned by you, but has never had a tenancy agreement and has never paid rent, are they considered a tenant in legal terms? I have no idea.

There may be another explanation, but I'm guessing the DB got into big financial trouble, most likely about ~15 years ago, with the financial crisis. This can take many, many years to sort out e.g. through personal insolvency, or restructured debts, or whatever. Sounds like he has restructured debts left to pay to this day.

Then the OP put herself forward to go on the title of the family home I.e. her DB's & her mum's home for the past 20 years (& 50 for her mum), to avoid potential care home costs being levied against her mum's assets when she got infirm, apparently. Now that her mum is losing her marbles, this selfish woman is giving full vent to her expressed resentment of her brother (for not having to pay a mortgage while he paid bills & looked after his mother instead, while working his way out of an insolvency probably), and she's looking to kick him out of his home of 20+ years, which he shared with their aging & care needing mum, with a ~100k in his back pocket & telling him to find somewhere else to live.

That's most probably what we're dealing with here.... unfortunately

I mean… that’s a heck of a lot of guesswork to base a ‘most probably’ on. It could be any number of other scenarios from high drama divorce to just being a bit crap with money. No reason to decide it’s a lifelong sibling vendetta.

Everything I've written is based on the OP's posts. The only guesswork is in relation to the DB's finances.

She has stated openly that she resents the DB living mortgage free while only paying house bills and only looking after their mother for 20 years into her dotage in her & his home.

Big clue - it's all in her OP. Maybe try reading it!?

Thanks all. DB had an expensive divorce, I guess you could say a bit crap with money but stems from generosity. Gifted the equity he got from his divorce to his son to buy a property.

the house was put into my name many moons ago as a “favour” to my parents to prevent them from losing the house. Things were quite different back then, my parents much younger, and the aim at the time was not intentionally to defraud the govt into paying care home fees.

I read your post which kicked off with a big par of imagined backstory about the brother’s financial crash aftermath, which set me up to take it all with a pinch of salt. As it transpires, my divorce guess was way closer to the mark.

Good for you, your guess was partially correct on the brother's financial situation.

Unfortunately you got way ahead of yourself with
"No reason to decide it’s a lifelong sibling vendetta."

Firstly, I never decided it was anything like this, but I did read the OP where she clearly states her resentment for her brother living mortgage free in their mother's home for 20 years.

The difference is I clearly declared where my guessing was, whereas you greatly mis-represented & exaggerated my position.