to feel hurt that I'm always on the edge of friendships?

[WhoAteTheLastBrownie]

I'm in my 50s and this has been a lifelong pattern: I'm not actively disliked, but I'm very rarely actively included. People usually describe me as kind, thoughtful, emotionally intelligent, but I frequently find I'm not someone people think to invite to stuff, or think of at all really. Friendships only seem to happen if I initiate, host, or offer something.

I honestly have noticed this a lot over the years and just lately I've made a point of not initiating anything and wait for people to get in touch, but it doesn't happen.

I'm starting to wonder if there's something in me that makes people hold me at arm's length, or if this is just a common adult experience. I do have two long-standing friends from childhood, but adult friendships have always felt slightly off, like I'm liked (or not disliked), but never chosen despite me making efforts and quite often being the first to suggest something.

AIBU to feel hurt by this? Or is this just how friendship tends to work as you get older?

Could you be a bit of a people pleaser OP?

I notice very often on these sorts of threads people list their "nice" qualities (good listener, patient, kind etc). These are all important qualities for friendship, but I think sometimes people assume that they are enough on their own. They're not.

Kindness, patience etc are important rules of conduct in friendship but there's something else which you need. There's a chemistry, almost like with a romantic relationship (except without the sex). And that depends, in part, on allowing yourself to be a bit selfish, to allow the real "you" to show through.

People who are only about making others feel comfortable actually end making them feel drained and exhausted. This may not be you and I may be being unfair but there were a couple of tell-tale signs in your post. I can't help noticing that a lot of these threads are started by people who expect friendship as a quid pro quo for being "nice". It doesn't really work like that.

Real friendship is either there or its not, you can't really force it. But you have a better chance at finding it if you allow yourself to be a bit more real and open and worry less about how you come across and what other people need.

Ironically, being more selfish may actually do you a favour.

Also - think about what you actually enjoy, not what you think you should enjoy because everyone else is doing it.
Birthday get togethers for 3 is a bit crap. Better arrange a night out at a bar, cinema, meal, walk in the hills, what would you all enjoy? If there’s nothing you can think of you all enjoy do it with one at a time.
Or do something you enjoy and ask them individually if they want to join you

I honestly don't think I am a people pleaser. If anything I mistrust people and keep my distance.

I think what I am realising though is that I am exceedingly boring. I don't really enjoy things that a lot of people seem to love, like musicals, going to the gym, reality tv, spa days, beach holidays, drinking, sports, parties...

When it's football season, or Wimbledon, or even the Olympics, I literally have nothing to say as I have zero interest in it, I don't follow any sports and I don't support anyone. I run and I do yoga, but those are not things people talk about.

I do like some stuff, obviously, but I think it's all quite solitary, like I am quite into arts and crafts, and the work that I do requires me to be constantly training, so I am always on courses, researching, reading and gaining qualifications.

I think I can be fun but I need a lot of safety around me for that part of me to come out, and I guess it just hardly ever has the opportunity, but I know I am to blame.

So I could say exactly the same .
But it's my own fault
I'm diagnosed autistic,and will only meet friends at the same time each day ,in one or two different places ..well mainly one place ,even the same seat .
so it generally is me doing the inviting.
But I've found I end up cancelling when they invite,as I end up agreeing to meet when I don't really want to ..
Looking back there's been long periods of time where I had no friends at all, because I had a job I loved and a boyfriend,and that was enough,I wasn't thinking..oh I've no friends,

I dont like any of those things you mention. So I find friends in my book clubs, choir and heritage groups.
I like reading, local history and architecture.
You dont have to drink and party to have friends.

Yes, except the opposite of 'people-pleasing' isn't 'selfish', either -- it's just making sure your own needs are met, which is just the sign of an ability to find a healthy balance between your needs and other people's.

And yes to the common theme in so many of these threads about friendships struggles being 'But I'm a nice person, who is a good listener and will do anything for anyone -- why doesn't anyone want to be my friend?' Friendship isn't a transaction where you give out 'niceness' or services' and get 'friendship' back, like double-entry bookkeeping.

If someone I knew gave me a lift to the hospital in an emergency situation, I would be grateful and thank them properly once the crisis had passed, but it wouldn't turn a slight acquaintanceship into a friendship. Unless we somehow also realised, while breaking speeding rules to A and E down the hard shoulder, that we also got along like a house on fire (which in the circumstances would be a fairly unlikely realisation).

I may come to value your kindness, patience etc once we are already friends, but they aren't going to make me befriend you in the first place.

OP for your situation in particular, I think maybe you could try considering what friendships or social interactions have gone right in your lifetime and trying what the common factor was, and also trying to work out what you value in others and focusing your efforts on cultivating friendships with people who have qualities you like.

It's impossible to tell without meeting you what, if anything, is going wrong in your interactions. In general I would say you could stop thinking of "friendship" as an interchangeable commodity that can be handed out by anyone, and focus on the individual and unique bond between you and another /others.

It sounds like you are quite particular about what you will tolerate in others (eg not liking a fake-seeming extrovert or people talking about their kids) which is fine but maybe this means you are not the kind of person who is extremely tolerant and flexible and will find the good in anyone (which is ultimately what you need to be the kind of person who gets along with anyone). So rather being frustrated with others for not bonding with you (which may be a two way street that is no one's fault) maybe try working out what you need to bond and cultivate those relationships?

What about Parkrun or a similar running club?

'I think what I am realising though is that I am exceedingly boring. I don't really enjoy things that a lot of people seem to love, like musicals, going to the gym, reality tv, spa days, beach holidays, drinking, sports, parties...When it's football season, or Wimbledon, or even the Olympics, I literally have nothing to say as I have zero interest in it, I don't follow any sports and I don't support anyonet'

Honestly I'm not in to any of those either and I don't think that makes me boring.

You have your own interests, maybe you need to find more people who like talking about arts and crafts, or just stuff that is not on the above list!

(Do you live in a rural area OP? I used to and it was much harder to find people who were 'my tribe')

This describes me as well. Coincidentally something I have been pondering on lately too.
I have friends who started out as work colleagues but I now regard as my friends as we have not worked together for years but we still get together and my best friend from school.
Others more recent than that ie from the gym and from my DC school, at the time I would go for coffee, we would go out to eat etc, I moved away and I kept in touch and ask after their DC and grandkids etc and then I posted an update about my DS on our whatsapp group and they all read it and no one even bothered to respond. It was at that point I gave up and haven't contacted them since nor have I had any messages from them either.
I'll just stick with the people who include me from now on. I really cant be bothered to make new friends now - it all seems superficial.

Honestly I have nothing against extroverts (well, maybe a bit of envy). I don’t think my preference for depth makes me superior, it’s just a different way of relating. But there’s something I experience regularly at work that I find confusing and, frankly, a bit demoralising.

There are people I’m friendly with and when we bump into each other in the corridor we’ll stop and catch up briefly, ask about each other’s families, that sort of thing.
So what I’ve noticed though is this: if someone I know passes by while I’m mid-conversation, I’ll greet them nicely but clearly signal that I’m already engaged, so they don’t feel they have to stop and talk. But often when I’m with other people and someone they know walks past, they’ll greet them in a way that clearly signals they want to talk to them. And then suddenly, I’m standing there, silently sidelined, while they launch into a full conversation, a proper catch-up right in front of me, as if I’ve become invisible.

It’s happened so many times!! Once, I even quietly walked away because it was so awkward, and the person I was with didn’t even notice I’d gone. In fact now that I think about it, this has happened outside of work also.

I don't think I am being precious about this, I understand social spontaneity to a degree. But how can people not be bothered to leave someone hanging mid-interaction?! Or maybe it's me and I just don't get it.

I guess what I am saying is that rather than trying to fix every social interaction (it may not be possible for you to be friends with all the people you find are not currently your friend) try to find out what DOES work for you, friendship-wise, and focus on that. As you point out, if you are not interested in sports, you may not have much to say to someone who is interested in talking about this, so why try to force it?

Also, I don't think there is anything inherently rude about bringing a third person into a conversation as you describe, or that this is necessarily an indication that the person you are talking to dislikes you.

I struggled with friendships as a child and well into my twenties. Then one day I decided I’d had enough of trying so hard. I also realised my parents were very poor role models and hadn’t helped me at all - I was an only child with no cousins or pets. No effort was made to socialise me, no play dates (in fact, quite the opposite) so I went off to uni without a clue about how to make or stay friends.
Anyway, once I stopped trying so hard things got better. I also realised being too nice puts people off. You need to have a bit of zest. A bit of a side. Not nasty or unkind, obviously, but a bit naughty perhaps and a good sense of humour. Make jokes at own expense and be prepared to take the lead sometimes. But not always! It’s a balance.
Also being adaptable - one friend likes to go for a curry so we often do that. But not every time.
Another friend likes shopping so we do that. But not every time.
Sometimes we do what I like.
Basically, try not to overthink it, be yourself and be confident.
Be prepared to take the lead sometimes. I find my social life goes in peaks and troughs. When it’s in a trough, I instigate a lot. Often there then follows a busy patch and then mostly, for rest of the time it’s a happy medium of being invited / doing the inviting.

That's a good post, @hydriotaphia. I often think that one of the other things that friendship struggles threads have in common on here is people who feel isolated not thinking of other people as individuals rather than some kind of generic mass called 'other people', and friendship as something equally generic that's passed around among 'other people' like paper money.

I think it makes a lot of sense to focus on what you need as an individual in a friendship, recognise that there are lots of types of people you won't get along with (just as there are lots of people who won't get along with, or want to befriend, you) and focus on potential relationships that look likely to provide what you need. And thinking about what went right in past friendships is a good place to start.

And I think that the post @ZippyPeer 's post is responding to is a good example of someone coming to false conclusions about 'other people' and what 'other people' would consider 'boring'. Not only do I not have the remotest interest in musicals (other than Sondheim), reality tv, spas, gyms, beach holidays etc, I don't know anyone who does, and I have a lot of friends. (Well, OK I have one couples therapist friend who has a slightly shamefaced addiction to Married At First Sight.) Don't decide you are 'boring' based on some generalisation about 'things normal people like'!

This is also me, I get along pretty well with most people. When I'm around them regularly they seem to be really close friends (weddings/personal conversations/nights out etc.) but as soon as whatever factor meant that we interacted regularly is removed (school, study, work etc.) is no longer there it's immediately like "out of sight out of mind" even when they keep up with others from the friendship group. I've gotten used to the pattern over the years to be honest. There are definitely people out there who just draw people to them despite seemingly zero effort to do so!

I don't quite mean bringing a third person into an existing conversation though. That would be something like 'oh hello Rebecca, Brownie and I were just talking about the summer holidays. Are you going anywhere?' That's a clear bid for inclusion.
What I mean is them engaging in a full blown conversation about something mutually shared that I know nothing about and cannot comment or contribute.

Ok if you say so. If someone started rambling on about kids to me I think I'd be bored and trying to leave within 10 mins so not very bonding

That’s fine, I said most people. It’s pretty standard for parents to talk to other parents about kids, it’s an easy connection.

I do recognise this.

I am lucky in that I have 5 or 6 good friends that I see regularly, but they don't know each other, so it's not a circle of friends. I am the hedgehog in the cheese and pineapple platter.

It's ok, but I miss the vibe from a group. It's less full-on and I can shrink into the background a bit more. But maybe that's the issue, perhaps I shrink too much in a group, but come across better one-to-one.

Why are friendly and sociable people being called inauthentic? What is it about a warm and chatty person that is not authentic? Does that mean that quiet and reserved people are all authentic?

Ok that was rude of them , and handled badly but could it be you are remembering these rude and hurtful interactions where as some one else may just shrug them off and forget and move on ?

I am sure stuff like this has happened to me but I am not storing it up as evidence that I am not liked or on the edge of friendships

you now have a belief that you have a problem and what humans do is look for evidence to back this up , so from now on you will look for , find and mentally record evidence to back up your belief

Snap newrly 40 and i was a people pleaser in my younger days. When I hit 30 and I atopped no one cared and no one reached out. I do have a coupoe friends but distant who actually reach out but due to location we never meet up.

But you understand why no one reached out, right?

This comes up so often on here with the blame solely allocated to the 'users' and 'false friends'.

I’m the same. Diagnosed at 50 as ADHD and Autism. Married and loved. But struggle socially. Put it down to me being difficult and family trauma but no it’s ND. Now I understand myself better.