to feel hurt that I'm always on the edge of friendships?

[WhoAteTheLastBrownie]

I'm in my 50s and this has been a lifelong pattern: I'm not actively disliked, but I'm very rarely actively included. People usually describe me as kind, thoughtful, emotionally intelligent, but I frequently find I'm not someone people think to invite to stuff, or think of at all really. Friendships only seem to happen if I initiate, host, or offer something.

I honestly have noticed this a lot over the years and just lately I've made a point of not initiating anything and wait for people to get in touch, but it doesn't happen.

I'm starting to wonder if there's something in me that makes people hold me at arm's length, or if this is just a common adult experience. I do have two long-standing friends from childhood, but adult friendships have always felt slightly off, like I'm liked (or not disliked), but never chosen despite me making efforts and quite often being the first to suggest something.

AIBU to feel hurt by this? Or is this just how friendship tends to work as you get older?

Friendship is complicated and involves a lot of skills, maybe you need to work on some of these? There are loads of podcasts about friendship that I think unlock and decode a lot of stuff about how to make friends. I think as adults we can choose to prioritise friendships and to do the stuff you need to do to make them happen. This has definitely been my own experience.

I’ve noticed in life that the two best friendship groups I’ve had and still have are when I put my brave face on and faked confidence and asked to join in, asked to go out with them. Then I’ve made the effort and integrated with the group/person. People wait for others to pull them into friendships but it doesn’t work like that. Mums stand on playgrounds alone waiting for others to chat to them. You have to put yourself out there. It IS an effort but then things worth having are, and once the initial effort is made then it gets easier.
The best kind of friends are funny, self depreciating, let themselves be vulnerable at times and share about their life, kind, loving, accepting, fun.
I see people post “I’m polite and nice, why don’t I have friends” that’s not enough for a meaningful friendship. People will make small talk with them but it won’t go beyond that

@Chickenstewie I find it extraordinary that people proactively message you to say “when’s your next party”! That’s so rude!

I’d reply - “we’re all hosted out for now! DP and I have agreed no more parties until a few folks have reciprocated!”

I have a friend like this (funny, charming, godmother to multitudes, sought after as a friend, easy to get on with instantly).

She’s also a massive people pleaser who exhausts herself being the life and soul, running herself ragged turning up, hosting, jumping out of a cake. I adore her but also realised that she actually leaves very little room a) for deeper friendships to develop - so when she manages to make time for me in her crazy schedule, she asks me the same questions from last time and the one before because she can’t take in the answers and

b) more importantly leaves no time for herself. She doesn’t engage with my questions about her life much and when she does open up under she admits she spends her life spinning plates and that things are always relentless and exhausting.

Could you say ‘ this year we’re only inviting friends who have reciprocated the invitation ‘

I could have written alot of these posts.

Like @WafflingDreamer, I have a job that involves talking to people, and in that environment, I can go and talk to anyone. However, put the same people in a social situation and I clam up.

My dh said he suspected I had adhd recently, and was surprised when I said possibly, although I think it’s more on the mild autistic side the spectrum rather than the hyperactive adhd end. (Sorry if that’s worded poorly).

I’ve never been part of the group that invites each other to New Year’s parties, trips to Ascot etc.

Well, we have them. We love having parties and hold some great ones for end of school year, Halloween, Christmas. People seem to look forward to them.

It would just be nice to be invited somewhere too, or have friendship in return.

I’m going through something horrific, which was at is peak a couple of months ago. Dh had to take the children somewhere for a sports thing, there was no choice and I didn’t want to sit in a hall full of sports parents when I couldn’t hold myself together.

I didn’t want to be alone. I really needed someone, just for a couple of hours. I had confided in a couple of people what was happening, I called one who lives a few doors down, just asking if she could pop round for a cup of tea while dh was out as I didn’t want to be alone, she knew what I was going through. She said she couldn’t as she was running low on cat food and had to pop Tesco. That’s the first time I have ever asked for any sort of help in my life, and she is someone I have happily dropped everything for a couple of times when she’s had bad news and needed someone there. I know she doesn’t owe me for that, but it was hurtful to get an excuse about going to the shops when I was distressed.

Then there would only be me, dh and the children at the party 🤣

@WhatDidIComeInThisRoomFor That’s not my friend at all - she remembers everything, does lots to nurture herself as well as care for others, and has friendships lasting 50 years. We may not see each other for a year or two, then it’s like we haven’t been apart at all.

She’s not a people pleaser and will turn you down if it doesn’t work for her. She’s just a great person to be around, so people value time with her.

I do know some people pleasers and I don’t really enjoy being with them. People who can’t assert their own needs are kind of wet, you know? I can’t have much faith in them because they’re too scared of offending others or letting them down to be their real selves.

I know that feeling! I was away with 3 of my friends when one of them mentioned a trip to Scotland. The organiser was one of the 3 and she said “I told everyone who came to my house”. I work f-t so rarely have the opportunity to go during the week. It makes you wonder if your friendship is valued ☹️ She didn’t then tell me about the trip so decided she didn’t want me there!
If it hadn’t have been mentioned I would never have known!

@Chickenstewie - I am sorry you friend let you down. That’s horrible.

We have parties too, and people ask me when the next one is. They are a lot of work, and I am not sure people always appreciate that. But I enjoy them (eventually, after the usual panic stage) so I host them anyway.

While I recognise this was hurtful, can't you see it's also the result of the dynamic you've contributed to creating? You say you had literally never asked for help before in your life, and that you'd repeatedly dropped everything for her in the past. When you do that, over time, it becomes a situation where you become the helper/rescuer/shoulder to cry on, the one with no needs, while the relationship is all about the other person, who is the one with the emotions, problems, dilemmas etc.

I feel that the reality of life for most middle aged people is that they have one or in most cases more of careers, kids, aging parents, partners and health worries to contend with. People are preoccupied with their lives and accordingly friendships are not intense in the way they are for people in their teens or twenties.

Everything changed for me when I started volunteering at my village hall afternoon teas and other community events. I find it much easier to make friends and keep up with contact when we have a joint interest or cause such as this. It’s made a huge difference.

Can definitely relate. I don't have loads of friends either but when I've reflected on this, I've realised that I'm more comfortable with 'acquaintancey' friends rather than 'close friends' who I would spill my heart to.

Most of it is due to a rather turbulant upbringing- had a parent with addiction issues so I had to be very secretive and wary of people in case people found about the addiction. (Yes, I know how weird and unhealthy this sounds!). So this basically led to me never having people over in my house when I was young and never being open. I was always on edge and anxious. (Not looking for sympathy. Just saying it as it's relevant to the thread).

As a result, I was so used to sorting problems out myself from a young age (e.g. literally hiding car keys ... throwing alcohol down the sink.... monitoring my parent so they wouldn't sneak alcohol) I am really independent and kind of repel anyone getting to close to me! So in a friendship I'm fairly guarded and immediately get into 'private mode' if someone starts asking me questions I'd consider to be private. The 'friend group' I'm on the edge of is the kind of group where members of the group are discussed by others in private, so I'm even more on edge with them because I'm so conscious about what I say/ do will be discussed later. I'm not giving out about anyone - I think that's fairly normal in friend groups but I just don't have the self confidence to know that things I say will be scrutinised after and discussed!

I am conscious that, in order to have friends, you need to open up so I really did try to and managed to tell a friend about a difficult situation I had in work. I didn't actually want any advice and just told her as I wanted to challenge myself to open up more. Total regret. She meant well but just kept going on and on and on about it, where in my head, I had dealt with the situation and it was sorted. Then she obviously told another friend about it and I got a not so random 'check in' text from the other friend, which really irritated me. And then a year later the initial friend I told the issue to would keep bringing it up at random intervals (e.g. 'god remember that awful boss you had') where I gritted my teeth and talked about it, but I really didn't want to!

So I've come to the conclusion that I'm better off with acquaintances.

Same here. Easier to make friends with a shared interest.
I will also say that being nice isn't enough to be my friend. Everyone's nice.
My friends have to be interesting and fun too.

If you haven't read it, I strongly suggest you read When Marnie Was There. A kids' book but it is so lovely about friendship, loneliness, belonging, feeling loved, and realising that you are actually loved, appreciated and enough and not "on the outside of the circle" when everyone else is normal/on the inside. Way ahead of its time. Great for kids just coming up to puberty too.

“She knew perfectly well that things like parties and best friends and going to tea with people were fine for everyone else, because everyone else was "inside"--inside some sort of invisible magic circle. But Anna herself was outside. And so these things had nothing to do with her. It was as simple as that.”

https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/products/when-marnie-was-there-book-joan-g-robinson-9780007591350

This my life now, for years.

When I was younger, I was basically the centre of my friendship group and always out and about.

Things changed when I had my son 8 years ago.

When I was pregnant, nobody rely initiated any social events and I tried to keep up when I had my son, but I struggled.

Moving into parenthood, I think my friends (who all didnt have children) couldn't relate to my new life. While I was chatting about issues with kids etc, they couldn't relate.

One of my friends from this group had a child a couple of years ago, and expecting another soon. She has also now noticed the gap between her and our other single friends. She had a baby shower and I was the only one showed up from this friendship group.

This friend is the one I was least closest too in the group, and now we are becoming closer and spending more 1-1 time with each other outside of the group, because we feel seen and heard.

We are still friends with the others but dont meet them as often. And they never check in on us, we are always the ones reaching out to them.

I dont think its intentional - as we get older, and experience different things, we will gravitate to and from different friends.

Yeah, I do get that, but It has only been a couple of times over the two years I’ve known her.

and when I say is the first time I’ve ever asked for help - I’ve always known it’s pointless to. I mean, I’m in my mid 40s, I’ve asked for help before and been treated like I’m asking for the Crown Jewels, so I gave up a long time ago.

I’ve had some awful things happen in life, as many of us have, and no one seems to give a shit. I’ve noticed that with other people I know, they don’t ask for help, people just ask them, “what can I do to help?” Or they just rally round and do it. With me, I’ve told people something that’s happening and I might as well just have told them I had toast for breakfast, and then they will tell me another time, really upset that a proper friend of theirs is going the same thing, how upset they are for them and the things they are doing to help.

For example I went through hell with a care home when my dad had demetia. It was awful. I told a few people about it.

A couple of years later, one of those people’s friends was in the same situation with their mother. That person was telling me about it, telling me that they were helping her out with the legal side, that she had taken her out for the day for a break and was texting her everyday as she was worried about her. I was in a pretty bad place as my dad had died the week before so I did ask her straight out, why she hadn’t given two shits when I was going through the same thing, she just said “oh that’s awful, I hope you sort it out”‘and moved on.

she just said “oh, well X is my friend”. I thought we were friends too, obviously not!

Not that I was expecting anything from anyone, it was just a slap in the face to hear how worried she was about someone else she knew facing the same thing. I’d known her for a decade as well and did consider her a friend.

I think these days the faker you are the more friends you'll have.... I know a person without going into much detail, she has made more friends in a couple of years than i have in 20, she berates family all the time, won't ever have family over, won't ever host at theirs, yet has a big social life.

I've always been the odd one out; always the one left out of group events. I was diagnosed as autistic recently, and it now all makes sense. Apparently NTs can sense that something is different about us, no matter how hard we mask. I have a few close friends that I see one-to-one and I really value them.

There’s a lady on our group who you’ve just described, everyone finds it so hard to get past the “ hi, hello, how are you” and she is always inviting people to her house and nobody goes.

There is nothing “wrong” with her at all nobody can get beyond surface level conversation.

I can’t even help define the difference, I don’t thing she shares an awful lot of opinions, thoughts, doesn’t start conversations, doesn’t really get involved just kind of listens and sits and waits for her to be bought into the conversation, I have noticed she doesn’t laugh and looked quite puzzled sometimes.

She is on her phone lots in group settings, so it’s hard, everyone is kind, eveyone try’s but I’m trying to put my finger on why she is different.

Read Let Them by Mel Robbins.

I get where you're coming from.

Do you know, I find, it's usually the 'loud' or extroverted characters or the 'controversial' ones that gain most friends, and they're always the ones that have a group of "girls".

I think "nicer" people, there's less need to "impress" them, less fear of what would happen if you didn't invite them to something or didn't make a fuss of their birthday for example.

I think it kind of harks back to school, sucking up to the 'harder' or 'louder' or most popular ones to increase social status and get brownie points.

In a social hierarchy, there's no 'reward' for keeping the nice ones happy or getting on their good side. "Nice" people also don't tend to indulge in popular but controversial bonding rituals such as gossiping or telling juicy stories about themselves or others , and I think a lot of people find those type of conversations fun. Far funner than talking about a hobby or renovation plans etc.

Depends what you want out of life though. You've got to find your tribe.those vivacious and colourful "girl" groups are great for some, but not really what everyone wants.

I do think it helps to make yourself a little bit vulnerable with people if you're trying to make true friendships. By that, I mean offering up things you genuinely like, give your true opinion and not the "nice" one on things.

@ellie09 see I was the complete opposite after i had kids. I didn't want to be talking about them when out with friends My interests hadn't changed so still got on fine with child free friends. I never really did get into " mum" friends though but tbh I didn't really want to as I wasn't interested in talking about kids