Great article in the Guardian about wokeism

[inkognitha]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jun/10/how-does-woke-start-winning-again

Good morning everyone.
Today, even the Guardian admits woke isn’t working.

« Yet Progressive Activists’ fatal flaw, the report argues, is that they’re further from mainstream public opinion on cultural issues than they realise. They’re the only group where a majority thinks that immigration should be as high or higher than it is now, and that protecting people from hate speech matters more than defending free speech (a key rationale behind “no debate” – the idea that trans identities aren’t up for discussion – and “no platforming”). They’re also the group most likely to think social change sometimes requires breaking the law, whereas two-thirds of Britons disapprove of protesters blocking roads or gluing themselves to things.
Tryl stresses that being outliers doesn’t invariably make Progressive Activists wrong – perhaps they’re just ahead of the curve, as the suffragettes once were – but it has important tactical implications. His polling shows that Progressive Activists overestimate by a factor of two to three how much others agree with their core beliefs, from abolishing the monarchy to letting children change gender. Consequently they tend to invest too little time on persuasion, focusing instead on mobilising the masses they wrongly imagine are on board. “If you’re reaching out to people, then you’re watering down,” is how Tryl describes this mindset.
While successful campaigns usually build the broadest base possible, Progressive Activists also tend to be purists, rejecting supporters who don’t endorse a complete worldview. (More than a quarter wouldn’t campaign alongside someone who believes – as a majority of Britons do – in Israel’s right to exist, for example.) Their yearning for grand systemic change means they can sound dismissive of other people’s small but well-meaning efforts, and they’re also unusually keen on correcting other people’s “mistakes” on diversity issues, something other groups consider likely to cause embarrassment. »

I hope some of the keyboard warriors/bullies roaming this board and the blue-haired, nose-pierced authoritarians will have a read, and at last, a think on how they do more harm than good.

"Startlingly" is such a key word isn't it. It sums up the woke brigade - they literally cannot understand how anyone can disagree with them or hold an alternative view.

This cartoon by The Oatmeal always springs to mind:

theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

Not in my opinion.

Firstly, I made several points in that post so I wasn’t clear what you were referring to.

Secondly, you’d get further if you weren’t as snarky

Thirdly, I have tried. As have many others. We keep failing because you won’t engage with any of it.

Because you are, in part. The more you belittle, refuse to discuss and insult people who vote Reform, the more you’re pushing them towards that choice. Surprisingly, people don’t enjoy being spoken down to.

I don’t think I have seen anyone say that the hard right is sensible. I’m pretty sure that it’s mostly centrists arguing against either extreme with the far left constantly insulting us isn’t it?

I do t support reform, and am actually a Green Party member for my sins, but I also think people like that poster are, to some degree, responsible for pushing people towards Reform.

If she think speaking to people like that is going to do anything it turn them off and turn them away then I don’t know what else to say

I think she is engaging in bad faith. She’s done it on several threads.

I don’t support Reform, either. I’m all over the place politically 😂

And you're calling me snarky. I've noticed this a lot with Reform supporters, it's like you're all reading from the same hymnsheet. You talk about calm and sensible discussions but I've never noticed you engaging in any. I've often asked people to kick-start the discussion but they don't.

I haven't noticed you attempting to engage with anyone in a calm and sensible manner. To me the thread looks like a bunch of Reform supporters giving 'lefties' a good kicking whilst complaining about how horrid the 'left' are.

I am not a Reform supporter. Being sick of woke doesn’t automatically make you a reform supporter.

That is a fantastic cartoon, thx!
@SillyMillie90

I see. So Reform supporters are ruled by their emotions unable to withstand robust discussion and need someone to blame?

I've noticed that as well. People arguing for Reform whilst denying they support them. It's very interesting.

Saying that some sanctimonious lefties are pushing people towards Reform is not the same thing as supporting them though.

I’m all over the place politically too. Was a left of centre centrist but after Cologne something switched. Then the trans issue / treatment of JKR was the nail in the coffin. Every issue women and girls hung out to dry by the left. Then the lefts anti semitism pro mass immigration with no thought for the consequences. I hate their virtue signalling smugness too. Maybe it’s perimenopause affecting my previous “be kind” ways which are now gone.

There are some Labour and Tory politicians I rate individually but I genuinely don’t know where I am politically anymore. Find Reform repellent.

It’s so on the nose. It actually discusses the Backfire Theory. Here’s a good link:

youarenotsosmart.com/2017/01/13/yanss-093-the-neuroscience-of-changing-your-mind/

“The research shows that when a strong-yet-erroneous belief is challenged … most people rebound and not only reassert their original belief at its original strength, but go beyond that and dig in their heels, deepening their resolve over the long run.

Psychologists call this the backfire effect”

'Sanctimonious lefties', yet you claim to want to engage with people. Do you think people want to engage with you while you call them names and chat shit about them? There are other political parties, not just Reform.

I am happy to say I voted Reform, as an ex, what I thought was die hard Tory. You're proof that people are too worried to say they have turned to Reform. I'm OK with standing up to weak, lazy stereotyping; the very thing you accuse Reform voters of being; others might not be. Reformers aren't going to shrink away because it's convenient to you.

I love that cartoon

For one thing, I didn’t say anything about wanting g to engage with people. I’ve already said I don’t and won’t ever vote Reform - I’m a member of the Green Party, and yes, there is a subsection of the left who act like they’re the only ones who are right, moral and true and they are harming the cause massively. Calling them sanctimonious is nothing compared to what they say about people they don’t agree with.

Yet this thread and your views are the epitome of weak, lazy stereotyping.

Aye. For me, I just wish people would come and loosely congregate around the centre a little more. Although there isn’t a political party that would align with that I don’t think

Why, because the OP used some hurty words?

I thought you were another poster. You'd know about people who think they're moral and true if you vote Green.

It’s not even what peoples views are for me, it’s the way they bully and berate anyone with different views. Disagreeing robustly is fine, but the vitriol thrown at, say gender critical women, for holding a perfectly reasonable view about biology, is not a good look and it’s pushing people further to the extremes.

I’m kind of hoping the gains reform are making will make other main parties pull themselves together so people could vote for them. There’s still time before the next election!