Great article in the Guardian about wokeism

[inkognitha]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jun/10/how-does-woke-start-winning-again

Good morning everyone.
Today, even the Guardian admits woke isn’t working.

« Yet Progressive Activists’ fatal flaw, the report argues, is that they’re further from mainstream public opinion on cultural issues than they realise. They’re the only group where a majority thinks that immigration should be as high or higher than it is now, and that protecting people from hate speech matters more than defending free speech (a key rationale behind “no debate” – the idea that trans identities aren’t up for discussion – and “no platforming”). They’re also the group most likely to think social change sometimes requires breaking the law, whereas two-thirds of Britons disapprove of protesters blocking roads or gluing themselves to things.
Tryl stresses that being outliers doesn’t invariably make Progressive Activists wrong – perhaps they’re just ahead of the curve, as the suffragettes once were – but it has important tactical implications. His polling shows that Progressive Activists overestimate by a factor of two to three how much others agree with their core beliefs, from abolishing the monarchy to letting children change gender. Consequently they tend to invest too little time on persuasion, focusing instead on mobilising the masses they wrongly imagine are on board. “If you’re reaching out to people, then you’re watering down,” is how Tryl describes this mindset.
While successful campaigns usually build the broadest base possible, Progressive Activists also tend to be purists, rejecting supporters who don’t endorse a complete worldview. (More than a quarter wouldn’t campaign alongside someone who believes – as a majority of Britons do – in Israel’s right to exist, for example.) Their yearning for grand systemic change means they can sound dismissive of other people’s small but well-meaning efforts, and they’re also unusually keen on correcting other people’s “mistakes” on diversity issues, something other groups consider likely to cause embarrassment. »

I hope some of the keyboard warriors/bullies roaming this board and the blue-haired, nose-pierced authoritarians will have a read, and at last, a think on how they do more harm than good.

I think there is a growing fear of The Reform Party gaining traction and a massive amount of backing down is starting to happen to try to save face and regain trust from those that have created a space for Farage to seem like the solution.

Labour haven't been in power for the majority of the last 30 years. How were they meant to deliver?

They have been in control locally, but on a national level they can still advocate on issues, challenge policy, asking questions, raise topics for debate, submit amendments to bills, set out priorities in manifestos….

I see, they weren't in power but still held considerable power such as asking questions and raising topics. I see what you mean.

I think labour local councils are known for not managing at all well, they spend a lot and provide poor services for the residents.

But then came April’s supreme court ruling that “woman” for the purposes of equality law meant “biological woman”, rolling back trans people’s access to sex-segregated spaces.

Rolling back the access they didn’t really have, surely?
And they do have access to sex-segregated spaces, just not the ones they want.

👏 👏

Labour are losing traction in Wales too, where they are the party in power. Reform (and Plaid) are doing well in the polls.

That might be what it originally meant, but it's not what it means now.

Strange how the Tories lost so many councils since they were so efficiently run.

I guess it's all about how you define 'woke' and there are so many variations we always get caught up in this sort of argument.

The things you list are good, of course, but a significant section the modern left has tied all that up with a bunch of other stuff that really isn't so good: the with us or against us narrative, the judgment, the individualism, the seeing as black and white when it's more complicated, labelling people as bad and pursuing them, some stuff around looking for offence. I consider myself soft left, but too often look at people who should be on my side and can't identify.

Agreed. I think we need a new term for what modern day "wokeness" has become, because I don't really recognise the hardline progressive activists of today to be in line with that really. "Woke" was really more about consciousness raising. And modern day progressive activism is born of good intentions, it's just gone way too far in a rather Maoist sort of direction, book banning, public shaming and purity of thought type thinking.

I work in an industry where it's quite rife, and I have worked in places where it's been allowed to become very toxic. Bullying nd even disciplinary action towards people who didn't want to disclose their pronouns. I used to manage a team of therapists, and I remember someone sat in my office crying and yelling because they didn't want to work with a client who admitted to voting for a political party they didn't like (but very much a mainstream one, we're not talking extreme fringe here), and I insisted they needed to work through their issues with it in supervision, because it's not acceptable for a therapist to dictate to their employer they will only work with people whose personal or political beliefs they align with.

I'm politically left of centre, but see this as a very childish ideology based on almost fairytale like concepts of good/bad, heroes and villains, putting people in boxes. It doesn't reflect the reality of the world. And it's not just young people getting into it either, I've met plenty of middle aged activist types who are equally unpleasant.

Tbf, the title of the article tells us what it’s about - re-setting their ‘marketing’ as they realise they’re losing people/not winning people over.

In practice it’s so clear when anyone uses the word ‘woke’ seriously that what they mean is ‘I resent seeing that black/gay/female person on my TV’. People who use it seem to think they’ve come up with this brilliant code that will prevent anyone detecting their racism, homophobia and sexism, but guess what, we can do the translation.

If you can show me a single ‘blue haired nose pierced authoritarian’ who is running a country and curtailing people’s rights I might perhaps start to be convinced that this was a problem worth worrying about. If you take a look at the actual authoritarians currently dominating international politics, I think you might find that they are neither blue haired, nose pierced, nor woke. Congratulations on coming up with a phrase that reads like self-parody though.

If you can show me a single ‘blue haired nose pierced authoritarian’ who is running a country and curtailing people’s rights

@ThatNimblePeer You don't have to run a country to curtail people's rights or act in a authoritarian way, cue the blue-haired, nose-pierced gender hordes who have tried to eradicate women by capturing the elites, taking advantage of the desire to virtue-signal from the elites and the rampant misogyny that still permeates our society. But it's not worth worrying about, is it?

Woke is a bit of a vague term, but woke does not equal being left-leaning or progressive. Imho, the Left becomes woke when it get excessive, not as much in the views they adopt but the TACTICS they find acceptable. See my post above for a non-exhaustive list.

Woke starts when left politics become a virtue-signalling religion with taboos, groupthink, rituals, discrimination, coercion, etc., and not an intellectual, respectful exchange of ideas and thoughts based on facts and experience, respecting democratic values and aiming to build a consensus with all segments of the population. That is politics, that is democracy.

And last point, it's not because there are authoritarian right-wing dictators in this world that it makes it ok for little blue-haired kids to be authoritarian as well (even with different goals).

Putting the two together like you did is actually very revealing, because it really highlights the fact that lots of woke people don't want to do politics, they want that authoritarian power. They don't see an awful dictator like a threat to democracy and the common good, they think "if Putin can do it, why can't we?"

Have a lovely, thoughtful day.

It's a shame that so many activists campaigning for 'woke' issues fail to meet the decent human being threshold.

Disagreeing with people is one thing but making death threats and trying to get people sacked for having different opinions is another. Woke advocats are fundamentally anti liberal. Looks like the G is finally realising that their authoritarian cry bully tactics are counter productive.

I stopped reading the Guardian due to it's misogyny. Pushing trans ideology whilst ignoring the impact on women is misogyny. Celebrating 'activists' like violent criminal male Sarah Jane Baker (convicted of kidnap & torture, then whilst in prison tried to murder another prisoner) is totally unacceptable. They need to go much further and admit that a lot of trans activists are simply misogynist men's rights activists and sadly some are motivated by sexual interests in children (such as paedophile John Rennie, founder of LGBT youth scotland and many other cases)

So untrue. Woke means someone shouting BE KIND OR I WILL BURN YOUR FUCKING HOUSE DOWN without realising the irony. The so-called ‘inclusive’ are currently the most exclusionary

Quite. I'm glad the article mentioned the rabid group Antifa. They have to be one of the most abhorrent hard left movements going. They are everything they accuse the right of.

I think some animals are more equal than others when it comes to wokeism. That’s when for me, it is all about the priorities of youth, rather than genuine care for the disadvantaged.

So elderly people for example, who are being increasingly excluded from society by changes in technology - no one gives a shiny shit about them and their ‘rights’ (despite age being a protected characteristic) - I wonder how many EDI courses mention them?

And black women, get a raw deal in most bites of the cherry statistically but they’ve got to hit all points of intersectionality seemingly to even get a mention.

But if you’re a Brazilian trans sex worker WOW. You hit the jackpot. Every EDI course in every office up and down the country wants to focus on your needs and demands.

Could you tell me more about the "rabid group antifa"? Where are they based, what's their history, who runs them, do they have a website etc?

I always thought that "antifa" was a general term for anyone opposed to fascism. (Meaning that anyone passionately anti anti fascists would be....? 🤔) But you know, if there is a sinister global antifascist conspiracy that I'm not aware of, I'd be happy to be educated about it.

We can see right through this. “Agree with me or you’re racist/homophobic”

THIS is what the main problem is. No discussion, not wanting to listen to people’s views that are so often nuanced, you just shout people down with insults and assumptions about that person’s character. You don’t want to hear an alternate point of view. You are literally demonstrating what the main issue is with ‘woke’

Have your views and opinions, that’s absolutely fine. We can respectfully discuss or respectfully disagree but please stop resorting to accusing people of basically being evil if they don’t agree with you,

May I add, if you want people to come around to your way of thinking, insulting them isn’t the way to do it…

I'll never believe that people who think you can change biological sex and that men who think they are women are actually women are 'ahead of the curve'. The pushback against that nonsense shows otherwise. People are waking up to the non science. It's bullshit and the majority know it.

As regards immigration. When poorer people see lack of housing and millions going on hotels for people new to the country and millions spent on this, they are naturally upset. Correct immigration through proper channels, where people work and integrate is vital. Seeing gangs of migrants wandering around does worry people in communities affected. Gary Lineker etc don't live in areas affected by poverty. Many struggling people see billions being spent on people from other places. That's reality.

As for the virtual signalling, with some protests and lack of understanding people need to warn a living (stopping ambulances and people going about their lives, by glueing themselves to the floor, clearly have little else to do, and many of those people are very privileged).

Then there's the Pro Pal lot, chanting slogans, showing some support for terrorismby sharing pr from terrorists unchecked, chanting about another intifada, not calling for hostage release (even threatening people who mention calling out Hamas) disruption to people's lives etc, well many switch off and avoid those areas. Cannot sort the whole world out and everything isn't the fault of the west. There's some pretty awful countries out there that would love to destroy our freedoms and way of life. Don't help them do it.

Their faces are always covered when they go out on one of their crusades. That's only the starting point. I'm not very good at putting up links, so somebody else might find something. 😊