Great article in the Guardian about wokeism

[inkognitha]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jun/10/how-does-woke-start-winning-again

Good morning everyone.
Today, even the Guardian admits woke isn’t working.

« Yet Progressive Activists’ fatal flaw, the report argues, is that they’re further from mainstream public opinion on cultural issues than they realise. They’re the only group where a majority thinks that immigration should be as high or higher than it is now, and that protecting people from hate speech matters more than defending free speech (a key rationale behind “no debate” – the idea that trans identities aren’t up for discussion – and “no platforming”). They’re also the group most likely to think social change sometimes requires breaking the law, whereas two-thirds of Britons disapprove of protesters blocking roads or gluing themselves to things.
Tryl stresses that being outliers doesn’t invariably make Progressive Activists wrong – perhaps they’re just ahead of the curve, as the suffragettes once were – but it has important tactical implications. His polling shows that Progressive Activists overestimate by a factor of two to three how much others agree with their core beliefs, from abolishing the monarchy to letting children change gender. Consequently they tend to invest too little time on persuasion, focusing instead on mobilising the masses they wrongly imagine are on board. “If you’re reaching out to people, then you’re watering down,” is how Tryl describes this mindset.
While successful campaigns usually build the broadest base possible, Progressive Activists also tend to be purists, rejecting supporters who don’t endorse a complete worldview. (More than a quarter wouldn’t campaign alongside someone who believes – as a majority of Britons do – in Israel’s right to exist, for example.) Their yearning for grand systemic change means they can sound dismissive of other people’s small but well-meaning efforts, and they’re also unusually keen on correcting other people’s “mistakes” on diversity issues, something other groups consider likely to cause embarrassment. »

I hope some of the keyboard warriors/bullies roaming this board and the blue-haired, nose-pierced authoritarians will have a read, and at last, a think on how they do more harm than good.

I think the progressives have become just as problematic about climate change. And an absolute unwillingness to discuss is part of the problem.

The best commentators among conservatives have very typically asked reasonable and important questions about the actual viability of differernt projects, and the economics that they would involve as well. Questioning whether outsourcing production of consumer goods to other countries really represents a green improvement. Whether tech like electric cars is actually an improvement when you look beyond carbon emissions. Whether it's really viable to keep the same amount of production while just switching to sustainable sources (which didn't used to be what environmentalists wanted, but it seems to be now.)

Instead it seems like if you don't accept that all of these things are Good, you must be an anti-environmentalist.

I think many conservatives gave up and concluded the left doesn't actually care about it that much, they just care about being performative.

I’ve said for a long time that it isn’t the Labour Party any more - since Blair’s ‘New’ Labour. It’s far more liberal and London-centric than its original voters can probably stomach and now there are 2 distinct demographics of voters. They should create a separate party - but they probably fear the loss of all the old ‘Labour til I die’ votes…. which nevertheless have previously, and seem now, to be going elsewhere…..

Yes I have noticed this too.

I am wondering even if the definition of ‘left and ‘right’ has now changed! Left used to be seemingly more about workers didn’t it? That doesn’t seem to be the case now.

Policies are all over the place and it’s hard to define any one party by where they are on the political spectrum. Maybe that’s a good thing? Some of my political opinions are left leaning and some are right leaning!

In my uneducated opinion, I think the main issue with environmentalism is that it is totally contra to capitalism. I always believed that the best thing for the environment is to consume less to begin with. What you do consume, make it as environmentally friendly as you can and offset whatever is left.

How can you convince people to consume less when our very economy depends on consumerism?

I also think one of the biggest issues we face is getting enough people to care about the future of the planet in the first place. With the best will in the world, if people are struggling to pay rent/mortgage/childcare costs, living paycheque to paycheque, don’t have the best quality of life themselves and very little free time - you’re fighting an uphill battle to try and get them to be more environmentally friendly.

Perhaps green policies need to be more linked to economic ones? I don’t know the answer, but I don’t think the Green Party jumping on the Trans bandwagon is it.

I think the progressives have become just as problematic about climate change. And an absolute unwillingness to discuss is part of the problem.

Depends what is being discussed. Climate change itself or rather climate chaos is undeniable - the evidence is out there at least for now (climate research is being suppressed in the US as we speak). What is unreasonable is an unwillingness to discuss different types of solutions.

Many climate change activists really get on my nerves. How is throwing soup on a painting dealing with the fact that two factories a day are opening in China? That in spite of falling infant mortality people are continuing to have 12 of more children in parts of Africa, leading to the need to develop land to accommodate them?

I would support climbing onto and trying to halt the mega-giant container ships coming here bearing Shein and Temu crap, or campaigning for population control - but nah, far more fun to disrupt travellers or ruin a painting.

I think why many are truly fed up with “woke” is that people with extreme ideas have managed to worm their way into institutions eg BBC and civil service and large corporations and once there are determined to recruit in their own image.

So we have a skewed dictatorati hectoring the public, wagging a finger and telling us to “educate ourselves”.

I don’t think Petunia and Heathcliffe would be getting their privileged hands dirty. 😁 Going to a gallery and throwing paint on unrelated art is very on brand for their virtual signalling. Also many of those paintings are by old white men who, don’t ya know, are the cause of all evil in society 🙄.

This is what I don’t get about these performative displays. Surely they do more harm to their cause than good? Who is going to see that in the news and think “I must get more serious about climate change”

Some people may, but I imagine most will just roll their eyes. Surely the first rule of any cause is to try and win hearts and minds!

It's a complex problem you've managed to reduce to people throwing paint on pictures. For example, China has no human rights, labour laws and uses slave labour and children to make our cheap goods. They're currently ethnic cleansing and polluting the atmosphere yet we happily trade with them.

Africa has been exploited by the West for resources for centuries. We prop up dictators and exploit unstable countries for oil and minerals. We dump our trash there and destroy their environment. We test medication on their people, buy goods created through human trafficking, give aid with detrimental stipulations and import religion which forbids the use of condoms in AIDs ridden countries. But yeah, they're the problem. They have too many kids.

They do have too many kids. That’s a fact.

And you may want to look at China’s involvement now in Africa. They’re going in hard.

To add: why should anyone in Africa care about climate when a firm is offering employment and money - never mind they’re extracting minerals like billy-o and building polluting factories.