AIBU to be utterly baffled at how many people are falling for Reform after the Brexit mess?

[TheCoralShaker]

I’m not into any political party or ideology – honestly, they all seem like varying shades of grifters to me – but I just can't believe how many people are jumping on the Reform bandwagon like it's some magic fix.

After everything that happened with Brexit – the lies, the infighting, the broken promises, the economic fallout we’re still wading through – how are people still falling for this kind of simplistic, shouty politics? The "common sense" soundbites, the "tell it like it is" nonsense, the constant scapegoating of whatever group is most convenient that week... it's all so transparent.

I'm not saying any of the main parties are perfect (far from it), but Reform seems to be just a bunch of media-savvy populists spouting whatever will get the loudest headlines. What’s worrying is how many people lap it up without even questioning what’s actually being proposed, or whether it’s remotely feasible.

Where are the critical thinking skills? Why are people so easily seduced by these pantomime figures who tap into anger and offer no real substance? It’s like the more outrageous someone is, the more they’re celebrated, and never mind whether any of it makes sense.

I get that people are frustrated, disillusioned, sick of the status quo, so am I. But falling for another bunch of opportunists who thrive on division and offer nothing beyond slogans seems like doubling down on the same mistake.

AIBU to think that we should have learned by now? Or is this just how politics is going to be from now on, performative outrage and no actual plan?

If we got a reform government they would get nothing done. I am pretty sure that the establishment (civil service, BoE, HoL) would run rings around them and it would be like watching them walking through treacle for 5 years.

I think that, in part is why Brexit has been crapper than it needed to be - those negotiating it didn't really believe in it. And of course it was the BoE which brought down Truss. There is a lot of power outside of the house of commons which probably isn't a bad thing on balance

Reform supporters never answer this question. Their main drivers are being anti-immigration and 'stopping the boats', but their detailed immigration policies haven't been revealed. I think a lot of Reform voters would like to be able to shoot the immigrants arriving by boat, as if we were at war and these people are enemy combatants.

Apparently, the people who are the most anti-immigration and most distrustful of immigrants live in places with the lowest numbers of immigrants in the UK.

I don't think people are "falling for" anything. This is the result you get when the public has such disillusion at the main parties they are desperate for anything else.

Traditional pathways haven't worked, it forces people to go to extremes.

It's a reflection of how so many are struggling with life. And it's not going to get better.

It's interesting that the YABU percentage is almost identical to the current voting intention for Reform. If the party is able to reflect this outcome among a cohort of predominantly woman, who so far have been less convinced about Farage, then they'll be flying at the Senedd l

@thepariscrimefiles interestingly the intel I saw is that Reform have surged in areas with high child poverty (Financial Times, 9th June). To me that fits with the fact that they appeal to people who feel unrepresented and poor. Given that child poverty is expected to rise in the next 5 years, I can only think that this will increase Reform's appeal.

Try again 69% agree with her.

Do you find comprehension or numbers tricky?

Yes, the YABU percentage is 31% which is just about around the general voting intention for Reform in most polls from the council elections onwards.

They are adding to the deficit at an alarming rate and unemployment has moved up after the NI tax rises. The UK is going to pay Mauritius to take the Chagos Islands (which they never owned) whilst chagosians have no right to return there.

I’m sorry but this is not competent at all, it’s a fucking mess.

On reform I think people just feel very lied to by the established parties and have developed a “fuck it, burn it all down” mindset. I’m not sure if they believe them or not but I think theres an air of “fuck it” about this whole thing.

On reform I think people just feel very lied to by the established parties and have developed a “fuck it, burn it all down” mindset. I’m not sure if they believe them or not but I think theres an air of “fuck it” about this whole thing

Yes, I agree with this but also, the electorate has had some control over Labour policy by supporting Reform. Without it's increasing popularity then we definitely wouldn't have seen a reversal of the wfa. Sometimes I wonder if people are just far more savvy than we give them credit for.

Trouble is it could happen in the UK, just like Trump was elected in the US. (and let’s not forget it was twice). Part of the issue in the U.K. is that a lot of people just don’t vote at all. Reform voters are rallied and motivated to make sure they put their Xs on ballot papers. In the recent local elections Reform won in one constituency close to us with a grand total of 17 people overall voting there.

The WFA reversal was due to local elections so yeh it does impact policy. More than much else so far.

For me personally the benefit would be lower taxes. More generally, cutting the benefits bill, encouraging/forcing more people back into the workforce leading to increased economic productivity which like it or not is the best way of increasing wealth for the majority of the population (acknowledging yes some people would be worse off at least in the short term). The NHS is a joke and needs serious reform and I would not be against abolishing it in its current state. I’ve lived and worked in 7 different countries so I have quite a lot to compare to in terms of healthcare systems and in my opinion the NHS is right at the bottom of the barrel. I’m pro immigration but getting illegal immigration under control is absolutely necessary. I’m under no illusion that Reform could easily achieve any of that but at least the dial will start moving back in the right direction.

This is very normal. Eastern Europe is very vocally much more anti immigration than Western Europe, which is kind of ironic when you think of it...

@foxinbluesox what jobs do you see the long-term unemployed doing? Where would the increased economic activity come from? How would it be generated. Again genuine questions, as whilst I see this as a really good thing to do, I'm just curious how Reform would succeed where others seem to struggle. I'm watching Trump's attempts in the US with interest (and some horror).

Do you mean former LABOUR MP Oswald Moseley?

Yes their are far too many people falling for reform and it's easy to see why, government across the board is completely broken. We cant build decent infrastructure, because of a random newt somewhere, developers state one thing then do the other and the cost taking everything to court is just coming out of the taxpayers money rather than a simple, you said the development would be this, it isn't therefore 50% fine.
Local councils go after someone who has put the wrong thing in the wrong bin, its just a merry go round.
Civil service and local government need major reforms and actually be accountable, as these are 'gateway services' into the political parties it should break up the complete nonsense which we have at the moment.
And we need to have a bit more of a responsible and open conversation about the two things which no-one is allowed to talk about immigration and the NHS, not like 7 year olds in the playground which is what we have at the moment.
Additionally we need to get a society back, far, far too many people just live in boxes, go to work/school/shops in box and travel back in the same box, we have created a vanilla society where people are afraid of change.
Finally, pay of local government top brass, NHS, Fire, Police, civil service all of these need to be tied in to performance, and not have a revolving door of 'I cocked up here, head down for 6 months, I'll move to another authority and get paid more'
Reform are only in it for themselves, as I believe most MP's and councillors are, we all see how much council tax has increased, yet MP's with their 2nd home can offset this - um, you taketh with one hand and taketh with the other.

@Lonelydave when you say government is broken, what do you mean by that?

How would you propose public sector chief execs performance is measured? Do you think that the bonus systems for the privatised water companies has been a success?

@TheCoralShaker Farage, a brilliant communicator?? 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Unfortunately he really is. He’s way better than any of the other party leaders.

Yes he actually is. I may not agree with what he is communicating, but he is good at communicating. I’ve seen him put on the spot with difficult questions and have only ever seen him answer them directly and straight off the cuff.

Doesn’t mean I agree with the content of his words, but he knows how to deliver. That’s why he is gaining popularity.

Well people fell for the Nazis, people are falling for MAGA in the US.

People fall for the far right, it seems.

He must be on some level to have got this far. It doesn’t work for me but it must tap into to something for many people.

I think it will be very interesting to see how Reform cope with their power in the local authorities where they now have control of or are the biggest party in the council. I was reading at the weekend of at least one place where no other party will go into coalition with them because they simply don't know what Reform policies are at a local level. They seem to campaign on National isdues, mostly linked to immigration but when it comes to bin collection or allocating budget to compulsory activities they have not got a clue. It will be very interesting to see if they hang on to council seats next year or whenever that council next votes.

Similar reasons to why intelligent Europeans are falling for far right parties?

Well people fell for the Nazis, people are falling for MAGA in the US.
And people fell for Starmer, even though he sits on the fence and then changes his mind ten times before breakfast.