AIBU to be utterly baffled at how many people are falling for Reform after the Brexit mess?

[TheCoralShaker]

I’m not into any political party or ideology – honestly, they all seem like varying shades of grifters to me – but I just can't believe how many people are jumping on the Reform bandwagon like it's some magic fix.

After everything that happened with Brexit – the lies, the infighting, the broken promises, the economic fallout we’re still wading through – how are people still falling for this kind of simplistic, shouty politics? The "common sense" soundbites, the "tell it like it is" nonsense, the constant scapegoating of whatever group is most convenient that week... it's all so transparent.

I'm not saying any of the main parties are perfect (far from it), but Reform seems to be just a bunch of media-savvy populists spouting whatever will get the loudest headlines. What’s worrying is how many people lap it up without even questioning what’s actually being proposed, or whether it’s remotely feasible.

Where are the critical thinking skills? Why are people so easily seduced by these pantomime figures who tap into anger and offer no real substance? It’s like the more outrageous someone is, the more they’re celebrated, and never mind whether any of it makes sense.

I get that people are frustrated, disillusioned, sick of the status quo, so am I. But falling for another bunch of opportunists who thrive on division and offer nothing beyond slogans seems like doubling down on the same mistake.

AIBU to think that we should have learned by now? Or is this just how politics is going to be from now on, performative outrage and no actual plan?

Which right wing parties do I support Blossomtoes? I will absolutely accept that all politicians lie. What I find harder to swallow is that those who support Reform are any more or less hoodwinked than the gullible fools who thought Labour was actually going to deliver on their manifesto.

i voted reform in the last GE and the local elections. I would vote for them again.

part if it is because I honestly couldn’t stand to vote for anyone else.

the stuck up rhetoric around all reform voters being oiks or far right thugs is also very divisive and pushes people even further away from the mainstream parties.

Agree. Support has dropped. If not they’d be on the same level as the GE.

https://pledgeprogress.co.uk/

And still four years to go. 🤷‍♀️

Do I know how that feels! I could never understand why people get voting against their own interests. It wasn't until we were knee deep in rubble that people decided the Tories were no longer working.

So here is a question… should we vote on which politicians we think are least likely to lie and most likely to deliver? (Ha!)

Or do we vote based solely on policies alone and hope they materialise?

I'm not going to get into the debate about education and reform but what I have noticed over the last 24 hours is some horrendous comments on social media about yesterday's plane crash .... particularly about the sole survivor.

British - he's not British with a name like that
Bet he hung onto the wheels
He's trying to get into the UK, then he'll bring the lot of them over

... and on and on. Thoroughly depressing to read 🙁. And when you click on their profile 9/10 they have illiterate posts cheering on Reform.

People do vote in line with their interests. They’re just not all the same view as Labour voters. That’s fine we all get one vote, not someone else’s too.

But often they don’t. As the Reform voters in the ten councils they won are already discovering.

People won’t all align with Labour mners on here, clearly. Fortunately they get a vote to use as they wish.

My mother voted reform. I can only give her reasons.
She has no interest in politics really, she doesn't understand balancing an economy an ageing population,and increasing health costs, social care etc etc. she thinks that problems can be solved by simple solutions.( She also has gbeebies on a loop).
Too many boat people, simply take them back to France or shoot the boats out of the water.
This apparently would save millions to spend on NHS.
Stop foreign aid, even though we use that soft power to garner good relations,trade deals and to prevent immigration.thats no concern to her.
Get out of the echr, because it's stopping us sending migrants back, even though those rights protect her too.
Social care issues, just stop paying and their family will have to take them.
Theres absolutely no thought about what impact this would have, she thinks it's simple to solve and politicians just don't want to.
Farage is the king of soundbites and simple solutions, so she likes him.
Theres no way you can persuade her otherwise, she's not interested.

@reesewithoutaspoon It doesn't sound like she has much empathy or humanity. I think Reform's core message is sociopathic if its encouraging shooting people, stripping us off human rights, stopping aid and zero social care. It's incredibly individualistic like Thatcherism on steroids.

She doesn't, but that's a whole other story for another part of the forum. But that simplistic thinking and assuming solving complex multi layered problems with " well if they just did X, then it would all be fixed" is not uncommon and the likes of Farage and trump successfully tap into that mentality.
Kier never gives a straight answer because he knows there aren't simple answers, and it leaves him sounding weak and indecisive.

Yep, this is the same bullshit I hear from various family members too. I feel a bit ashamed for how hard of thinking they are. I have in the past tried to take the route of sensible conversation instead of sneering at them but it honestly isn't worth it as they don't want to know or don't understand any of the complexities involved in any of it. It all comes down to 'immigrants are taking our jobs'.

And to be clear, they live in a low immigration area and none have ever been anywhere close to losing a job or anything else to any immigrant!

Kier never gives a straight answer because he knows there aren't simple answers, and it leaves him sounding weak and indecisive.
That's nonsense. The whole point of the PM is being decisive. If he can't find answers to problems then he's in the wrong job.

I was just thinking the other day that nobody has coined the phrase "Starmerism" - is that because there is no idea / philosophy / driving force?

It seems to me that low immigration areas are always the most racist. I grew up in rural Somerset, incredibly white area and the local Facebook groups are as racist as all get out.
Also the immigrants who are simultaneously taking all the jobs and being on benefits at the same time.

My uncle was a big supporter of Brexit. He was sick and tired of immigrants!! He lived in a village in N Wales, where the residents were as pasty as him. His wife however, was an immigrant.

Also the immigrants who are simultaneously taking all the jobs and being on benefits at the same time.
It is entirely possible to be in a job (low paid, undercutting the indigenous workers) and at the same time claim Working Tax / Universal Credit.
Didn't we all love the cheap Polish Plumbers - as long as we weren't a plumber, of course.

How do you undercut indigenous people when there's a minimum wage?

Brexit was a concept - an idea. Leave or remain. People's ideas of what leave meant was just that. An idea not defined. Many assumed it would mean a firmer line on immigration. Remain was easier - business as usual.
As our negotiations to what the final outcone were debated and eventually sort of agreed by Westminster arguably by many who were not in favour off leaving - was it really be best deal for the UK? Equally the EU did not want the UK to leave so their negotiations were not being overly generous.
Those whose vision of leaving was not in accordance with the final signed agreement were bitter, felt let down and lost faith. Johnston's smoke and mirrors satisfied them both withstanding his later shenanigans. He has gone. Nature abhors a vacuum.

Now we live with the mess.

The problem is there are no answers, at least not simple ones. It’s complex and hard and you can’t guarantee an outcome

but people are hearing from the likes of reform that it is simple, it is easy, and it’s just the mainstream that are refusing to do it. It’s lies, but it’s seductive

The issue with conflating Brexit with reform is that many who voted for Brexit don’t believe it has been unsuccessful because it was the wrong thing to do. But that it has been unsuccessful because those charged to deliver it were on the whole remainers, who didn’t want to make a success of it. (Strategic incompetence if you will).

What this results in is a section of the population who feel disenfranchised. And even when they “win” the vote, the establishment carries on regardless. And so they move further and further from traditional establishment parties because “they don’t look after people like me”

To stop Reform, it isn’t about mainstream parties adopting Reform policies in order to try and claw back votes. Again this just looks dishonest. It is about mainstream parties engaging in the debate that Reform supporters want to have. Rather than just shutting them down as racist or crackpots or ignorant.

Interesting, but not my experience at all. I find people who live in very low immigration areas are most likely to champion mass immigration! But in a rather nimby way.

Thats why Trump loves the poorly educated. I agree with you that many of their supporters are incapable of critical thinking.