To ask if anyone has advice on the mess I’ve got us into.

[Littlevioletflowers]

I’m not sure there is anything I haven’t thought of tbh but just posting for a bit of support. Please don’t tell me how stupid I’ve been financially as I now know and am just feeling quite despondent.

5 years ago I moved down to London for an amazing new job with a big organisation. Me DH and two younger DCs (teens)

It really was amazing at first. Loved the job, and one of the great benefits was a shared ownership scheme where my employer, in recognition of the fact property is very expensive here, helps you buy a house by going in 50/50 with you. Our plan was to eventually at some point increase the mortgage so we could own the whole property. Bought an absolutely gorgeous house which felt like a dream after years of renting that cost £600k (this is relevant) so fairly small and basic for London standards but a haven for us - kids can put up posters, paint the walls in the colours they want, we can have a pet and invest in the garden.

Then my boss left and I got a new boss who is awful. I won’t go into detail but I’m pretty sure she wants rid of me and has form in another part of the organisation for managing people out. I’m so stressed about working with her that I’ve actually started to perform badly and make stupid mistakes - I feel sick when I wake up on a work morning, worry all weekend and on days in the office go in feeling so anxious.

If my situation were different I’d just get another job. I work in an industry where there are lots of jobs at my level and when I’m not feeling sick with stress I’m actually pretty good at my job. The problem is that if I leave we have to buy my employers share out (300k) within two years and we just would not be able to do that. We spoke to a mortgage advisor and the absolute best mortgage he can get is is £550k which isn’t enough to buy my employer’s share. We have no access to a further £50k, I’ve tried to think of everything short of onlyfans!

What makes it worse is that our house was recently valued at being less than what we bought it for, otherwise I’d think about just selling it, taking half the profit (as per the deal with my employer) and buying something cheaper, We love our house so much and I really thought it would be our forever home but have accepted it probably won’t be.

I just feel so awful about uprooting the kids and moving again, potentially to a rental, as I doubt we’ll make enough money on any sale to buy again. We absolutely scrimped and saved for the deposit and lawyers fees for this one.

My friend told me at the time not to enter into the scheme with my employer and I just wish I’d listened.

Join a union and they can support you with this process.
do not let this person with an agenda make your family homeless!!
start reading your policies and pushing back where it’s wrong (nicely and always via email) - it will hopefully give her pause for thought.

if you do a grievance you need to be clear about what you want- eg can you be managed by someone else? How can you quantify ‘stop being nasty to me’. People like this always need someone to pick on but if you protect yourself and push back, they go to the next person. It’s not right but then you won’t be homeless. Start saving that 50k ASSA!

What a batshit employment scheme! This must bite them on the arse regularly, i’m amazed.

OP after resisting it for months, i’m currently reading “Let them”, the book referred to upthread, and I am finding it quite freeing in terms of helping me detach from toxic people. I think it would help you reframe how you feel about the situation, which would then buy you some more time to find another job or think through your options a bit more.

Some great advise on here, I hope it helps as it’s horrible when you dread going into work.

have you joined a union? Would that be worth looking into if you haven't ?

Hi @Whistlingformysupper I may have misunderstood your post, but the OP said there isn’t any equity in the current house.

The deposit amount doesn’t help at all in this situation, it is just sunk into repayments. If I’ve misunderstood, please say.

Join a union now. They will support you with any grievances and if you are being managed out. They will only do that if you join before there is an issue so get it lined up. What employers rely is the fact that legal costs mount up quickly so employees don’t challenge decisions but unions can support with that in early stages and hopefully stop things escalating.

@Littlevioletflowers You are giving her FAR too much headspace. The grey rock technique is not just for relationships. Keep your interactions with her brief and businesslike, document everything - not just with her but in all aspects of your job. If you can find out if others are unhappy with her do so, but very carefully/casually and don't document that. Lots of us have been in similar situations (sadly) so take control, rise above it and do NOT let your imagination run away with you.

OP this could be construed as workplace bullying. You absolutely need to keep detailing how you are being treated by your manager and if you now feel it’s time to raise a grievance then, as scary as it seems, you need to talk things through with your manager first. Tell her how you feel and see if there’s any way you can sort things out between you. You also need to tell her straight that losing her temper is not acceptable - you are both professional and she needs to treat you as such.

If you can come to an agreement, then document what has been said in an email to her so there is a record, and also continue to keep notes of any subsequent issues. That way, if you do end up raising a formal grievance HR will see that you’ve tried to work things out between you, and there will be a record of the issues.

I do not know what kind of mortgage advisor you spoke to but I would get a second opinion. L&C mortgages are brilliant and you don’t have to pay a broker fee. Yes in an ideal world your house security wouldn’t be so linked to your employment in this way double check their agreement does them owning the house 50/50 mean that if the house gains they get 50 of that as well? I would actually take it to a solicitor to look over the original agreement.

OP says the value has decreased since they purchased.

Yes - I agree with this too @Littlevioletflowers

The good thing is you love your home and you’re settled. This is a big positive. Therefore to maintain things as they are , you need to find a way to save money/ overpay your mortgage so you can buy your employer out in a two year window and then you can get another job.

The downside of this means that your main option is to stick with this job for the next 24 months.

The job itself, is the same job you had and it’s a job you were previously very good at and enjoyed? The job itself hasn’t become harder or more dangerous?
Therefore, everything that’s wrong for you could be sorted IF you can find away to deal with this one person?!!!

If you can crack this - then all your lives can go back to being happier and calmer!! ((Maybe put your savings into the premium bonds too!)) 😅

There are various ways to manage upwards - that’s what it’s called - getting the best out of your boss!! .
First you need to say to yourself - she can’t hurt me or physically attack me, she’s just a person who craps on the loo like everyone else. Try to find a way to take away the power she has over you that’s affecting your ability to do your job as well as you did before.
Get a bit cross rather than scared of her - after all this woman’s attitude is affecting you and your family’s lives. Hopefully this will enable you to go back to doing your job as well as you were.

Second what do you think makes this particular boss tick? Are there people she does like? Does she want no pleasantries, task done? Does she want to be left alone and have someone who problem solves or does she want to micro manage everything you do?
Managing upwards is a very specific skill.
Google it and use some techniques and change how you respond to her accordingly.
Part of this could include you calling a meeting with her and asking her how you can do things better, what is she looking for on her team? Your aim is to make her look good further up the chain and then you get an easier life! You may have to grit your teeth but remember your aim is time to ensure you can afford your home.
Finally, you need to make a note of incidents that are not fair or incorrect with evidence in your personal email in case you need to build a case against her at some point.

To just dismiss someone on permanent contract is quite difficult and there’s a due process via HR. They will also have to give you an opportunity to improve. If you’re on a permanent contract and you’ve been there over 2 years, it really isn’t easy to get rid of you.

Dig deep, make your 24 month plan, defend your home, learn how to manage upwards and I think you can turn this around as you sound really great @Littlevioletflowers xx

OP this is a tough situation. Unfortunately when a bully makes a person feel like you are it comes to a point where she will look like the put together calm and professional person and you will appear as an emotional crying mess. It isn’t right but this is the nature of what happens. Good. To HR almost never resolves the problem. They are there to protect the company and as above you will look like the easier person to lose.

As you have been there over two years they will have to pay you OIt to get rid of you - this is significant if you can get another job quickly as it may mitigate the £50k you will have to find. NEVER accept the first offer of that happens. They will always pay more.

You other option is to take stress leave and force HR to deal with the problem. However you will eventually have to return to work and this may involve mediation with your manager so think about if this is something you want to do.

In your position I think I would speak to your manager and let her know how you are feeling - that unfortunately you can’t work together and that it isn’t a positive and professional relationship where you aren’t being set up for success. Tell her you want to make a lateral move and tell HR the same (this helps when you are negotiating with a mutual settlement that you are willing to find solutions). The problem you have is that your reputation may be in the toilet at this point so you need to get a sense of that and lean on senior people in your business you are close to both for advise and for another job.

You need to be prepared to leave and consider how that may happen.

I have seen this a million times and it never ends well for the employee. Ever. I say that so you can prepare and be realistic. Do what’s best for you.

You say another part of the organisation -.so is this a big organisation and can you move to another area of it?

Sorry OP - I’ve just read your other posts and mine sounds a bit simplistic but hopefully still some helpful info in there!!
Managing her is the best way forwards / trying to remove your fear of her / and giving yourself time to ensure you have access to your whole house.

Yes I agreed with that last line too. Jealous being the main point!

So what if it gets her antennae up? That might make her think before she starts to criticise you unnecessarily! I’d frame it along the lines that you need a recording of the meetings to make sure you’ve captured everything properly, so that there won't be any errors ‘going forward’.

But don’t, whatever you do, try to record her surreptitiously, or using spy glasses etc, that were suggested up thread!

This is very true.

However, for this to happen - you need to make it reaaaaaally difficult and messy for them to manage you out. Make it absolutely clear from the outset that you will be taking it further and fighting fire with fire if they come for you.

Go to HR now, raise your concerns in an email with them so you have a paper trail. It doesn’t need to be a “grievance” at this stage, merely seeking mediation. Though if you email it and they deem it sufficiently serious, they can treat it as one.

Start replying to the nasty teams messages; “Hi Boss. It makes me feel really undermined and devalued when you point out minor grammatical errors in my messages. Can I ask why you feel the need to do this and is it something you are doing with others? Is it relevant to the quality of my work?”

You've got this.

I agree with others that you should definitely join a union, just in case you need them in future.

I wouldn’t go to HR personally, at least not at this stage. I think that might end up making the situation worse, as your nasty manager will hear about it and become more determined to get rid of you. But keep good records of everything, and audio-record as much as you can.

Then I would just sit tight and get on with the job. In my experience bullies are generally deeply unhappy people who usually unravel in some way, and often end up leaving anyway.

I’ve been in my job for decades, and about 20 years ago a new person joined. We were equal standing but she decided I was dead-wood, and took it upon herself to bully me out. I was a new mum at the time, so at my most vulnerable, whilst she was young, child-free and full of energy. But I stood my ground, ignored her constant criticism, and just did my job. Eventually she realised I wasn’t going anywhere, and she moved on to the next person, and the next, and the next. And here we are 20 years later, she’s been through all kinds of stresses and has shown her own weakness many times. She’s a much softer person now.

The other thing I’d do OP is make sure you’re really chummy with everyone else. Bullies are generally pretty inadequate people, and they only target someone they see as weak. If you appear strong, and you have a “gang” behind you, she’s more likely to back off.

One appraoch I took that worked…
rather than go to HR with “complaint”…go to HR with an ask for help. Ask them to help you improve your performance to the standards she is expecting of you. Tell them that the effort to try to improve and avoid issues is making you stressed (important as work related stress is reportable H&S issue). Use your previous performance as evidence that the standards you’re being asked to perform at are “new”

of course you will know this isn’t your issue. But POSITION it to HR that you are making it your problem, you want to fix it, and you’re ask for spepcifc help to fix it. You’re taking accountability. Do not say it’s your boss’ fault

they’ll want to know what’s happening. At that point you can, again without blaming your boss, provide all the evidience you have. Scruntanise it first and remove any possible perosnal comments or criticism of boss…just prevent facts.

be clear about how it is effecting you and that you want to take ownership to change it.

HR can’t refuse to get involved. They’d be admitting then that they aren’t going to take action to prevent a H&S issue re work related stress, and they can be sued for that.

they’ll then know. They’ll then know you asked for their help to fix it. They’ll have information on what boss is doing

ifntheyre like my HR, they realised very quickly that boss was one needing “coaching”. They intervened. Boss got coached. Never pulled that stunt on ,e agian (he was bullying). But perception HR had of him changed too, blotted his copy book and all that. Demoted a few years later.

dont go in all guns blazing with complaint or grievance…take ownership and ask HR to work with you. Yep, they’re part of management team, they’ll not say to you boss is at fault. But they don’t want litigation where they failed in duty of care re work related stress either.

by the way I told my boss I’d asked for HR “help” to coach me to improve. He couldn’t argue with that. The look on his face was priceless. He knew he was doing something wrong, and that I kept meticulous records of 1:1 discussion (cos I used to give him copies). But he literally couldn’t argue against what I’d done as it would have been obvious he didn’t want me to fix the issue. Just wanted to keep bullying me. Don’t let HR tell them you’ve asked for help. Tell your boss yourself, as soon as you’ve done it.

fake some innocence and nievity on this…”I’m just trying to meet your expectation and stands but am finding it difficult to understand what I need to do and how to improve, despite what I’m trying to do,,,” type thing

Q

Agree with all of this. Stay calm @Littlevioletflowers and don’t panic. Your house is still yours - you aren’t at the next stage yet. I’d be inclined to stick it out at work and see if you can move elsewhere to escape this particular manager. Stay calm, stay rational and respond politely to her rudeness. You could request a meeting with a third party present (hr?) and explain her behaviour - and show examples- is making you suffer from stress and make mistakes, and You’d like to build a better relationship with her and feel this transparency is important.
Take some time off sick if you need to. Get some advice from acas or a union. Read the fine print of the housing documents and find out what happens for example in dismissal cases etc. Remember that’s not you yet!!!
best of luck to you xxx

Great advice.

Also, please check your home contents insurance because if you have legal cover you can see a lawyer for free about an employment situation. If not, paying an initial fee would be money well spent. It will hopefully make you feel a bit more empowered and more importantly get it officially recorded - before this change in manager, things were going very well for you.

I agree with you in not raising a grievance yet. I did it once and it went straight back to the person involved. It made the situation worse and I felt I had to leave when my confidence was at an all time low. I kicked myself for being weak - but I heard my successor also left and finally something was done (too late for me).

It’s all very well for people to say you should be stronger - wouldn’t it be great if it were that easy!! You also have the added stress that your home is involved. You had no way of predicting this would happen and your decisions were made in good and reasonable faith for your family.

Lawyer up and keep making notes. When you feel stronger, I would think about emailing the manager to ask if they have a problem with you - because you are concerned about x,y,z. It might be a trigger for the manager to rethink their behaviour.

OP you’ve had great advice and I really hope having all these suggestions gives you a new sense of strength and hope and you feel less “stuck”. Just wanted to second the “grey rock” advice - while you’re trying to sort this out, you need a way to feel less affected and be able to emotionally wall yourself off from her attacks. The “bingo” approach can help where you write a list of behaviours and see if you can tick off a particular number per day or week, so her behaviour becomes a little game to you. It’s great that you’re keeping notes, and it can help to imagine yourself as an anthropologist or zoologist and just think “hmm, one for the notebook”

Of course it still affects your work and I’m not underestimating how hard it is to cope with - but IME these things can give you that extra bit of internal power that makes it more bearable.

Also agree with PPs that these people want someone to take their shit out on and cause pain too because that’s their maladaptive psychological need. She doesn’t want you to improve, she wants a bullying target. Don’t play her game - play a game where you are going to change the narrative and be someone who doesn’t give her that - through your attitude, the HR tactics suggested, union support etc. She is the one in the wrong and in a big organisation I do think you can prevail.

OP ,I'd be taking legal advice for this. Forget about your horrible current manager for now and ask yourself why your previous boss offered to go 50/50 with you for a £600,000 house? This really doesn't add up as its been values for considerably less.

Oh and also, you didn’t get anyone into a mess! You made a work move which worked out well if it hadn’t been for becoming the victim of workplace bullying through completely no fault of your own (and we know this as all was ok with your old boss - it’s not you).

This is really great advice @Littlevioletflowers and is part of a managing upwards strategy to ensure you’re handling this situation and your boss and taking back control.