Cancelling a day out due to misbehaviour.

[survivalinsufficient]

Unsure who is being unreasonable here.

Family day out is planned to a country house type place. Grandparents, Uncle&Aunt, parents and their 3.5 year old all going. Plan is to meet at parents house and go from there (all couples in their own cars).

When grandparents arrive, 3.5 throws a full mug of tea all over his grandads legs/feet. Just completely random, but a real pattern of behaviour here that parents are trying to work on with their child. It hurts Grandad, tea all over carpet, everyone a bit upset. Both parents are a bit stressed.

Child refuses to apologise for bad behaviour. One parent then decided that they are not going on the day out. Working on consequences of actions with child at the moment - bad behaviour, no apology, day out with family cancelled.

Grandparents and Uncle&Aunt don’t undermine parents and although are sad they go on their way to the day out. When they’ve left - other parent goes mad. Thinks it’s complete overreaction, thinks won’t impact child’s behaviour, ruined a day out for the whole family over what they consider a small incident.

Now caused massive disagreement within the family. Who was in the right? Was this an overreaction?

The parent who’s child is is. It’s their child, their parenting, their decision

Sorry I may not have been clear - the parents disagreed. Parent A made the decision which Parent B didn’t disagree with whilst guests were present, but afterwards has said how unhappy they are with the day being cancelled and they think it was a ridiculous overreaction. That’s the AIBU.

I think 3.5 is too young for this consequence. Whose side of the family are the grandparents/aunt/uncle?

No thats a stupid consequence for a child of this age. Dont leave hot drinks in their reach. Presumably the child didnt mean to spill the tea on the grandparent? So parent A.

Yeah I don't think at 3.5 they will link their behaviour with the consequence strongly enough for it to cause any change in their behaviour.

They probably just find cups of liquid (especially adult cups) really interesting/motivating. When my child were small they were obsessed with chucking small toys into drinks and so fast at doing it if you took your eye off the ball.

I would let them have lots of sensory play with liquids/pouring to try and get their obsession itch scratched - e.g. get water play outside and a teapot/cups child's set. Just make people aware to guard their drinks and I think a simple "no naughty" if grabbing adults drinks and loads of praise for passing drinks nicely etc.

in our house we don’t do punishments if they are also going to negatively impact someone else. A common one that crops up is bad behaviour at a play date; we don’t threaten our children that we will go home if they have bad behaviour because then the child they are playing with also misses out and is upset. Ditto taking away the treat of going to a friends bday party. Etc etc. In your case above we would not have cancelled the whole day out because it’s a disappointment for the parents / grandparents / aunt and uncle more so than the 3.5 year old and therefore seems disproportionate

How did a child that young deliberately pour a hot drink on someone?

To be fair it was cold tea from earlier in the day that parent left on coffee table - child is not usually in that room so it was left out. But child deliberately picked it up and threw it at his Grandad’s leg. This sort of thing has been happening recently. Child even acknowledged immediately afterwards that he isn’t allowed to throw. He knew the behaviour was wrong.

You say the child threw a full mug of tea over Grandad’s legs and feet, OP. That wording doesn’t make it sound accidental.

Did the child do this deliberately (even if impulsively)?

I think this information is important. Without being prepared to answer your difficult question, a typical 3.5 yo is old enough to learn that deliberately pouring a hot drink over someone is a very, very bad thing to do.

Also surprised about the child being too young to understand consequences. They’re nearly 4! At bed time later that day child specifically said next time they won’t throw and then they can go on their day out, unprompted.

This is part of the problem - child absolutely does know what they’re doing.

I absolutely agree. As I said (think we crossed posts!) it was deliberate. And child is old enough to know that.

Is the child trying to get parents’ attention while they fight about stupid things?

I think it was an overreaction to cancel the full day out and is unlikely to have resonated with the child in the intended way to be honest - I'd also say it could potentially affect their relationship too.

Kids will make mistakes, but there's questions to be asked here such as why was a hot cup of tea within easy reach of a 3.5 yo? It's lucky the child didn't scald themselves.

At that age they won't have fully understood the impact of their behaviour other than 'this will cause a reaction' and parent A provided that. There were definitely other ways this could have been handled. I also think it's important not to weaponise apologies or the child will give them without actually meaning them.

I think parents both need to spend a bit of time researching behaviour management strategies together so they can both be on the same page and be consistent with what they're doing. Is there a pattern in your home of one parent making sweeping decisions that affect everyone and the other "going mad" because that's a sure combination to confuse a child.

This is Parent B’s basic chain of thought. Parent A thinks it’s more important to raise a well behaved child that understands actions have consequences than upset extended family (and they continued their day out anyway - it wasn’t a hugely child focussed activity)

How did it hurt Grandad if it was cold? Look kids just do stupid stuff like this, its silly to say he knew it was wrong. He cant control his impulses at this age. Yes tell him off or give a small consequence, but youve blown it out of proportion and it won’t help. A forced apology is also a waste of time.

@Lavender14 what do you mean by weaponise apologies?

If someone does something that hurts someone else you should apologise, shouldn’t you? Surely expecting and teaching a child to do that is fairly normal.

"This is part of the problem - child absolutely does know what they’re doing."

There's a big difference in a child understanding that they are not supposed to do something, understanding why they aren't supposed to do it, being able to foresee the consequences to doing said thing and then having the willpower not to do it, especially if feeling disregulated.

The part of the brain that deals with foreseeing consequence and willpower etc isn't fully developed until around 21 years old, one of the last parts to fully mature, so you can imagine how underdeveloped it is at 3.5 years old. I think your expectations are a bit bigger than they should be.

But how does a child ever learn to control their impulses if they don’t get told what they’re doing is wrong?

Mug was heavy, hit grandad with some force and smashed on the floor. This wasn’t just caught by accident.

I mean if you're forcing them to do it for fear of consequence, not because you're teaching them the empathy and the concern for others and educating them on the impact of their behaviour then you could find they say it to avoid the consequence rather than because they actually have learnt anything.

My ds is around that age and we had a period where he would hit me then say sorry and then hit me again two seconds later because I was telling him to say sorry but he wasn't really getting the why. Or the fact that we can say sorry but it doesn't mean other people need to accept it etc. That's a longer term piece of education. So just forcing an apology or the day out is finished is kind of weaponising it if you see what I mean?

The child didn't spill the drink, they threw it.

@survivalinsufficient I'm with parent B on this. Parent A ruined the day for everyone and escalated the situation.

also just to say, we're obviously only going off the one example you've given here but you say there's a pattern. Are you concerned about your child's ability to regulate in other ways? Have you spoken to health visitor or nursery etc about it and do they have concerns or are they seeing this as regular toddler behaviour?

I didnt say you shouldn’t tell him was wrong, in fact i said you should tell him off or give a small consequence. Most three year olds do stuff like this many times a day so theres no point turning it into a drama and cancelling all your plans.

You are clearly parent A with this. Do you really think your partner doesn't want to raise a well behaved child? There are different ways to achieve the same goal. Your way isn't the only way.

Both are unreasonable, you should have a clear line on consequences that you have both agreed on.

Parent A (obviously me at this point!) is the only one who sees this as a concern beyond normal 3 year old behaviour. Have spoken to nursery, have spoken to other parents. Seems no one else would have any concerns.

I have been accused of being strict but I have a bright child and I know they understand what they’re doing and they know throwing is bad.