Cancelling a day out due to misbehaviour.

[survivalinsufficient]

Unsure who is being unreasonable here.

Family day out is planned to a country house type place. Grandparents, Uncle&Aunt, parents and their 3.5 year old all going. Plan is to meet at parents house and go from there (all couples in their own cars).

When grandparents arrive, 3.5 throws a full mug of tea all over his grandads legs/feet. Just completely random, but a real pattern of behaviour here that parents are trying to work on with their child. It hurts Grandad, tea all over carpet, everyone a bit upset. Both parents are a bit stressed.

Child refuses to apologise for bad behaviour. One parent then decided that they are not going on the day out. Working on consequences of actions with child at the moment - bad behaviour, no apology, day out with family cancelled.

Grandparents and Uncle&Aunt don’t undermine parents and although are sad they go on their way to the day out. When they’ve left - other parent goes mad. Thinks it’s complete overreaction, thinks won’t impact child’s behaviour, ruined a day out for the whole family over what they consider a small incident.

Now caused massive disagreement within the family. Who was in the right? Was this an overreaction?

I'm surprised at how people think that throwing a cup with liquid in it over an adult for no good reason is normal behaviour in a three year old. I've never seen the like and my child was no saint.

He should've had consequences that didn't affect others, he should've apologised for a start and missed something important to him. The day out wasn't even child focused and "he would've been spoiled", well that's the bit you stop not the whole day.

Have you tried a reward system? DS has had a marble jar for years now, the things he gets marbles for have changed over the years, they started with things like being still while we brushed his teeth! When the jar is full he gets a small prize (it takes a little while) it's motivational, visual and marbles can be lost as well as earned.

I absolutely agree that throwing a mug of tea at someone deserves a big consequence! No, they shouldn't go and have a lovely time out after hurting someone. It is doing children a disservice to say that they cannot understand hurting people is wrong! I teach and thank any parent that gives out consequences for behaviour. Honestly. They grow up fast, and down the line children whose bad behaviour is ignored or excused often do not reach their potential.
Having high expectations doesn't have to mean being shouty or that you never have fun or praise your child. In fact it's imperative you do, often! Speak with your child afterwards and encourage him to do better, and then move on. Fresh day and all that.

I don't think you did the wrong thing. Though sometimes it is helpful to step back and evaluate how you're interacting and making sure you're not missing something that's troubling them generally. Bigger picture and all that. It's a long game!

Editted for clarity.

I think cancelling a whole day is too large a consequence for a 3 year old. They are very here and now. I’d go for trying to make them understand and doing something immediate and v short term, if anything

@survivalinsufficient i don’t like the idea of strict because it seems you are being judgmental of others who aren’t and who parent differently from you and frankly seem to be judging parenting of those who aren’t.

For me and how I parent it is about understanding how your behaviour affects others probably understanding why please and thank you and manners are important and not simply said as a platitude but also recognising that sometimes emotions happen, sometimes accidents happen and sometimes a 3 year old doesn’t have the understanding that you think they do

did you ask him why he threw it? We know he did but why did it

If this incident had happened after the day out, what would the consequence have been?

I agree with a consequence, I agree it should be immediate, especially at that age. But you aren't able to maintain consistency with consequences when you jump to the biggest thing you could come up with.

Also, if you choose to have further children in the future would all children be punished by not being allowed to attend due to one child's actions? That will build resentment between siblings.

I think you and your partner need to work on a plan for consequences that you both agree with. One can't override on decisions, especially when ti affects the family missing the day out. Resentment will build in your relationship without communication and compromise as consequences and managing behaviour isn't going away.

If you always go for the biggest consequence you can think of that will affect that child, you aren't being stable and consistent. You will affect the connection/bond between you as you seem to have purposely chose the one thing that would upset your child. Almost like going for the jugular...

The consequence is way over the top for the crime, especially in light of the child’s age and the fact that it impacted a day out for a group of adults.

I agree with having a major consequence for that poor behaviour. However, I also agree that having a consequence that negatively impacts other people is not good. If I were parent B and looking forward to the day out, I could imagine feeling like I had also been given a bad consequence!

At this age you teach by putting boundaries, explaining why it’s wrong and teaching empathy. You’re treating a 3.5 yr old as if they were 7-8 yr old if not older and the consequence was way out of proportion (while not teaching anything). Your child will throw again, will repeat they shouldn’t have done it over and over again until they eventually grow out of it. Doesn’t mean you should ignore, you should repeat and teach why shouldn’t be done. And have appropriate consequences; this wasn’t one of them.

I’d they did that at home. Would you punish them the whole day and make them stay in their room all day…… I agree that you can’t be soft, but a day that wasn’t child oriented anyway isn’t punishing the child they will be happy to go home, it’s punishing the family who want to spend time together

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being a strict parent, but I also don’t think the punishment was appropriate.

For starters, a three year old isn’t going to be looking forward to a day out at a country house in the same way you were.

A firm chat, immediately after the incident was required, preferably an apology too. Then, later in the day, if no apology has been given, try again. Then, early bedtime that night. If you behave like you did this morning, you’re obviously overtired, so early to bed it is.

Missing a day at a country house? Your child won’t care. What did they do instead? Go home and play with their own toys in their own home? They probably see that as a nice day, while you and your husband have had your own day thoroughly spoilt.

I think with a consequence like that (involving a family day out) you could have said to dc that there will need to be a consequence for their behaviour and that you will discuss it with their dad. Then gone and had a private discussion with your husband and come up with a consequence that you both agreed on. Because you are both dc’s parents and I don’t think that decision should have been a unilateral decision.

When it comes to behaviour guidance consistency and having a united front is key. Also, modelling correct behaviour is key. I would have shown care and empathy to Grandpa in front of child. Grandpa are you okay. Poor Grandpa that must have hurt his leg. Come see if Grandpa is ok. I would have encouraged an apology but not enforced it because I believe apologies should be genuine. I have very little tolerance for insincere apologies. So, I would focus on teaching empathy. In terms of human development a 3 year old is at the beginning of developing genuine empathy. It relies on brain development.

In the case of attention seeking behaviour the child feels rewarded even if they get negative attention. Because the goal is to get attention, any attention. I would have given most of my attention to the injured person. And while I agree that you simply can’t ignore dc’s behaviour I would have addressed the behaviour with the least amount of attention possible while being very clear that their behaviour was unacceptable.

Tough one OP. He needed a consequence for his actions but I'm not sure he'd have computed the punishment you gave him as being an actual punishment. After all he ended up having both parents to himself at home with all his toys for the whole day: surely a win in the eyes of a 3 yr old.

@ItsNotMeEither makes a fair point. I was thinking that if I was a 3 year old I probably wouldn’t care that much about not having to go on a day trip to a country house either. Some 3 year olds might remember this incident as an effective way to get out of things like family days out in the future.

I’m Team Parent B sorry. You spoiled everyone’s day to try to teach a lesson to a 3 year old who’s years too young to understand it. You sound out of touch with child development at that age and you’re trying to present the incident as worse than it was. The tea was cold, if it was full it was probably heavy for the child and it’s an adult’s fault it was left within reach. Parent B and nursery aren’t worried about the child and your method of teaching them a lesson will go right over their heads and instead penalises all of the adults.

Going on a family day out is not being spoiled rotten. It’s trying to make the best of those few days that people are free from work and other life stresses and being present in the moment sharing time with people who are dear to your heart and actually important to mental health - this is not something to remove when considering how to communicate with children to teach them about future behaviour. You are assuming that children only learn by negative consequences including removal of time spent with loved ones. Your child is learning a lot at all times from your actions including from positive and caring reactions. It’s a great thing that you are considering both parents ways of resolving this in future situations showing flexibility and willingness to learn together as parents and as a family.

Is your 3.5 year old a particular fan of a country house??

My DC is of a similar age and I disagree with what you did - especially since the drink was cold and didn't scald your father. Okay, the mug was heavy, but he wasn't injured or cut.

The way I see this is that while it was definitely bad behaviour, it doesn't warrant spoiling the day for potentially seven people just to teach a 3 year old a lesson from which he might not realistically learn anything. The need for your DS to learn a lesson in this context does not outweigh the value and rest the 6(?) adults would derive from the break or holiday at the country house, so I feel the decision made by one of the parents (you?) to stay at home with the child was ill-considered, blinkered and an overreaction.

There’s a lot of talk about no reason for doing this- I’m assumed the child was excited to see family and knew things were different to usual. If they struggle to regulate (or don’t receive adequate co-regulation) then they will have “rush of blood to the head” type things. We all get them, even adults at various times but we have developed impulse control and know how to regulate our emotions a bit more.

Daniel Siegel has written a lot on the Brian development of children and parenting with that knowledge - no drama discipline is good.

Its worth remembering that multiple things can be true - he shouldn’t (and knew he shouldn’t) throw cups, there needs to be a consequence AND he didn’t have the impulse control to stop himself beforehand.

The thing with being strict at such a formative age is you spend a lot of energy correcting mistakes, forcing apologies etc. which gives loads of attention to the behaviour you don’t want to see. Little kids just need their parents attention, good or bad and end up learning through negative reinforcement that the best way to get that is th do whatever they are likely to get told off for. They were probably feeling overwhelmed with the family all being there, struggling with the transition of being about to leave for a day out, bored and left out as grown ups were talking, so comes the impulse to communicate “please notice me”. “There’s no such thing as naughty” by Kate Silverton is a good book to learn a better way of parenting if you were open to changing your mindset from punishing to teaching your child.

This. Height of bad manners

In that situation, I would be very cross with the child because they hurt someone. But I prefer consequences to punishments. So I'd make them wipe grandpa's leg clean and dry and kiss it better and put on some arnica so it doesn't bruise and scrub the floor where tea spilled and help grandpa choose clean trousers and put the stained one's in the washing and say sorry to everyone for making the day start late. Lots of cause and effect action so they understand why everyone is upset.

I would support the parent who ended the day early due to their child’s behaviour.
I work in a school and unfortunately it doesn’t surprise me that so many people think differently!

I fully agree with you OP and I have twin nearly 4 year olds
you did the right thing. They absolutely do understand right from wrong at this age

Children at that age don't really say sorry because they mean it, they are just forced to say it. It takes time for them to learn what sorry actually means. I would never force or have a go at my child at that age it they didn't say it. You can still teach your child good behaviour without punishing them. It isn't a case of if I don't stop my child going out I'm being "gentle". I think punishing something else not linked to what they've done actually does very little and I don't believe I'm a soft parent. I don't let my children do things like that and I would tell them it's wrong, explain why and move on.