Children drowning on holiday.

[Nextdoormat]

Another week where in the news a poor toddler (2) has drowned on holiday. Devastating for parents. I am not casting blame or being goady, but how can we make it clearer that someone needs to watch a child 100% of the time if near water.
As a single parent I did take my kids on holiday where there were pools but they always had arm bands on when they couldn't swim properly and I never took my eyes off them, so no reading a book, snoozing, chatting and being distracted.
Perhaps it was easier when I had sole responsibility. Once my DS2 at the time aged 4 was just walking by the pool and another kid just pushed him in at the deep end. I jumped in fully clothed with sunglasses on and pulled him out, if I wasn't watching I could have been that parent grieving.
My heart goes out to the parents, what was supposed to be a holiday making memories turned on it's head.

We went to a swimming pond abroad some years ago. My kids were about 8 and 10 and decent swimmers. They went in the pond and DH I sat at the side relaxing. But they started to swim out to an island and struggled - the pond wasn't massive, but it must have been a bit further than they were used to swimming. DH went after them and all was fine, but I look back and wonder what I was thinking letting them swim without us.

There were other times that one of our kids got lost in IKEA (kid thought this was a great laugh!), or DH and I were in different parts of the garden centre and each thought the other had the kids, or when one kid got away from us and ran towards a road.

I don't really judge other parents; everyone makes mistakes, and mostly there's no damage done. Hopefully you then try not to make that mistake again.

I agree threads like this are helpful to learn from. Reading all these stories has scared the life out of me and I will definitely use tips like the red ribbon to show who’s responsible for watching the child and dressing them in red or orange. The Emilie Kiser case is so tragic and I’m sure they will blame themselves for the rest of their lives that they didn’t have a fence.

As other posters have pointed out, people have an unrealistic idea of what drowning looks like, thanks to TV. They think that if their child falls in the pool, they'll scream for help and flail their arms above the surface.

Also, you'd be amazed at how naive people can be about children's swimming abilities. The other day, I was discussing Madeleine McCann, saying that she could very easily just have wandered off to the beach and drowned. One person said, "But even if she did, she wouldn't have drowned. She knew how to swim." She seriously thought that a three-year-old without water wings would stand a chance against the ocean current. Alone. In the dark.

DH and I take our 2 dcs swimming every week and one of us is next to and interacting with one child each. It's a fun time for us as a family and the dcs like us playing and splashing with them, so it's never occurred to us not to be seeing what they are doing at all times - we do it because we're right next to them, chatting to them or physically interacting with them. The pool is always fully booked (leisure pool with slides etc) and I wouldn't want to rely on the lifeguards - they often look bored or distracted with admin or maintenance.

On holidays at the beach they're always holding hands or at least within arm's reach.

You can watch someone drown right in front of you if you don't know what to look for.

The first paragraphs of the article "Drowning doesn't look like drowning" are helpful / horrifying (same name as item linked above, but different website) -

"The new captain jumped from the deck, fully dressed, and sprinted through the water. A former lifeguard, he kept his eyes on his victim as he headed straight for the couple swimming between their anchored sportfisher and the beach. “I think he thinks you’re drowning,” the husband said to his wife. They had been splashing each other and she had screamed but now they were just standing, neck-deep on the sand bar. “We’re fine; what is he doing?” she asked, a little annoyed. “We’re fine!” the husband yelled, waving him off, but his captain kept swimming hard. ”Move!” he barked as he sprinted between the stunned owners. Directly behind them, not 10 feet away, their 9-year-old daughter was drowning. Safely above the surface in the arms of the captain, she burst into tears, “Daddy!”

How did this captain know—from 50 feet away—what the father couldn’t recognize from just 10? Drowning is not the violent, splashing call for help that most people expect. The captain was trained to recognize drowning by experts and years of experience. The father, on the other hand, had learned what drowning looks like by watching television. If you spend time on or near the water (hint: that’s all of us) then you should make sure that you and your crew know what to look for whenever people enter the water. Until she cried a tearful, “Daddy,” she hadn’t made a sound. As a former Coast Guard rescue swimmer, I wasn’t surprised at all by this story. Drowning is almost always a deceptively quiet event. The waving, splashing, and yelling that dramatic conditioning (television) prepares us to look for is rarely seen in real life."

The article goes on to clarify the difference between instinctive drowning response and aquatic distress and that if someone can't respond to an "Are you OK?" get them out of the water.

Jo

I am in some ways dreading a family trip to Center Parcs as we’ll be swimming every day and I’ll be with our newborn while my husband is with our toddler who loves water - not that he’s not a good, attentive parent! I just also want to be right next to them, not watching from the side.

But the fact I’m so worried about the water is related to why this thread doesn’t sit right. The posts and replies essentially saying “How could this happen?!” make me feel uneasy because accidents can and do happen so easily, even with the best parenting.

Absolutely, for a 30 min lesson, once weekly it is £57. If you are on a low income how is this affordable? Local authority classes are full.
We should start our own campaign for every child in th uk
I used to be a lifeguard so I understand the importance of swimming/floating. my boys learnt to swim from a young age as I felt it was an important lifeskill

Yes, afraid I agree. So many parents don't seem to get it. There was a tragic case in Cornwall a few weeks ago where a child drowned. Apparently his dad had let him get out of the pool and walk to the baby pool to see him mum but obviously didn't watch him walk down. Child fell in and drowned and the parents tried to sue the holiday park. Never rely on lifeguards! It is your job to watch your child! My 6 year old is a good swimmer but I am either in the water right next to him or watching him like a hawk from the side.

DD1 didn't even learn to swim (with lessons, in fact she could do doggy paddle with arm bands) until she was 5 as I knew she wouldn't be out of my sight as one of us would be in the pool with DD1 and DD2. And she picked it up then so quickly. DD2 did in fact have lessons younger but only as big sis was going anyway.

I think some parents think "oh they can swim" when they are quite little and have lessons from a young age, when in reality they still need close supervision. It can lead one into a false sense of security. Even older children or adults who are strong swimmers can make a mistake or have an accident, there is always a risk.

It's so sad and whilst some of these tragedies are down to clear neglect (not watching children for a prolonged period) it can be so easy for a tragedy to occur in a couple of split seconds.

My eldest (then aged 5) went under in a hotel pool in Morocco. He was standing on what I thought was one of the wide pool steps. I was in the pool itself and we were through throwing a small ball back and forth to each other. He took a step forwards and what I had assumed was the first in a series of steps was actually just a ledge. Half a second and he disappeared under the water, with just his sunhat floating on top. He didn't scream or splash, he just sank to the bottom like a stone. Obviously I swam down and grabbed him immediately but even those few seconds felt like hours.

One of the things I found most alarming afterwards was that the pool was busy and crowded with people and there were TWO lifeguards on duty but only I saw him go under because I was watching in that moment. We signed up for swimming lessons as soon as we got home but it was really haunting.

Several years later our youngest age 2 escaped from our holiday apartment in Fuerteventura when I was in the loo. She was a bit of a bolter so we were always meticulous about latching the door once we were inside. What I hadn't taken account of was that there was also a back door in the kitchenette which opened into the bin alley and was only used by the cleaners. It had no handle on the outside so no one could get in but to unlock and open it from the inside you just had to push the handle up. Toddler discovered this before we did. I realised she was missing straight away and went running out. She had already made it to the edge of the pool, wearing just her nappy (and bizarrely MY trainers like clowns shoes) and was marching along singing happily. Two concerned looking ladies had spotted her and were trying to steer her away as I raced up hysterically. Another moment I still shudder about.

Neither were allowed to go in the pool without one of us until they had made enough progress in swimming lessons to do a full length and be able to haul themselves out of the pool from the side and even then I would watch closely. They could both swim better than me by the time they were 8 or so.

I think I'm quite a careful mum but it made me realise how quickly and silently things can go wrong.

I think some people think that there's so many people around that someone would easily spot something and help- not realising that most drowning is fairly silent and without much obvious distress being visible. On holiday recently my DH suggested that the kids could go in the pool together without us, as they can both swim (aged 6 and 11). I said absolutely not, as I would never put that responsibility onto the 11 year old, or expect her to have enough awareness of signs if her sister was in trouble.

I've pulled 2 kids out of the water in the past year and that was in the UK, swimming pools with lifeguards and the parents in the pool. One was a clear case of stupidity, the father left the toddler sitting on the pool stairs and he was doing laps. But the other one was an older child, maybe 6, very busy pool, mum distracted by a sibling and he must have moved outside his comfort zone. It's scary how quickly things can turn dangerous.

What they have faced isn’t a conversation though. And neither is a lot of this thread. The Kiser family have faced unbelievable judgement, criticism and wild accusations in what is arguably one of the most horrendous times of their lives. This thread isn’t a conversation, people are using it as an opportunity to preach about their superior parenting when in fact it’s thinly veiled judgement and blame.

I’m all for a conversation, this is judgement.

When they are little it's swim aids and close supervision which is important not actual swimming ability. 5+ they pick up swimming quickly in lessons usually and then you needn't pay for so many.

I think the Emilie Kiser case, whilst tragic, is a little bit different and that’s why she’s receiving so much of a response, because it was active negligence: pool fencing is a legal requirement in Arizona, they’d been advised as much by their pool installer, warned by their HOA that they were in breach several times, and seen (and deleted) thousands of comments from their social media where followers had told them the same. Regardless of the circumstances of how their child drowned and whether it was a freak accident, they made a decision not to comply with the law. They’re paying an enormous price for it, though, and I really hope it jolts other families with home pools to fence them.

A family who’ve booked a villa with a pool for a holiday and then lose a child because of a perfect storm where both parents thought the other was watching the child and didn’t realise they’d let themselves outside or whatever could happen to pretty much anyone.

Aside From the fact that toddlers can drown in an inches of water, most people don’t know what drowning looks like. They think it involves lots of splashing and maybe shouting. Drowning is silent:

Exactly. If now isn't the time to discuss pool safety, when is? If you discuss it at any other time, people will get defensive and dismiss it as hysteria. It's much more difficult to remain in denial if a child has recently drowned.

Utterly heartbreaking. But I wonder if both parents thought the child was with the other, or something like that.

I remember being in Disney World when DS was three. I was looking around a shop and DH had hold of our son. Apparently they’d walked to the end of the aisle I was in and my son had said “mummy” and run towards me so my husband thought he’d come straight to me. My husband didn’t follow him because I was within about 2 metres.

Meanwhile, my attention was on some T shirts and I didn’t know my son was behind me. I walked away from the T-shirts and into the next aisle where I saw DH was without our son. Immediately I panicked and DH ran into the next aisle to look for him, but he wasn’t there.

The Disney cast members quickly went into action, radioing security, asking me for a photo, they closed down the shop, we were looking around it, they alerted other cast members. My heart was in my stomach. DH was running about outside the store now, looking everywhere he could think of.

Then suddenly I hear a little giggle and I turn to the T-shirt aisle and see my son poking his head out of a hanging rack of towels. He had been right next to me. He had tucked himself under the towels and out of sight.

It had taken a split second to ‘lose’ him. It shocked me. We went straight to Walmart and bought reins for him.

Fortunately for us we could all laugh about it. But many are not so lucky and it can end in tragedy - not necessarily people being negligent. Just awful, awful, circumstances. So I try not to judge.

Water is so dangerous for people who can't swim and it's even more terrifying how these things can happen when you are being a full on parent. When my eldest was 3 he suddenly ran off and disappeared which had never happened before. I had his brother with me who was a baby and not walking so even though I ran right after him I wasn't quick enough to see where he went. We live near a river and also somewhere where there is a pond so he could easily have made it there and fallen in. Luckily for us he didn't but it easily shows how these things happen even when you are watching them.

On holiday I made sure we knew who was responsible for the kids in the pool and if we needed to swap it was clear that x was now in charge because it's so easy to think someone else is watching them.

I would never have a pond in the garden with young children and if I had any kind of swimming pool it would be fenced or in a separate building with an alarm so you knew when the door was left open/unlocked.

Teenagers are another story, mine are still too young to be going off with their friends but I have discussed with them how dangerous water can be and not to swim in rivers/quarries but once they reach late teens that will be out of my control and in theirs and it's up to them to be sensible. Doesn't help my worry that they are boys and statistically more likely to do something stupid and kill themselves!!

Nobody is stopping anyone discussing pool safety.

What some of us are objecting to is the

"OMG a child has died, here's all the reasons I'm better than those parents and it won't happen to mine"

Or

"Well I'm just going to say it, the parents were negligent/drinking/at fault somehow"

Why can't pool safety be discussed without bringing someone else's tragedy into it?

I think it's hard because everyone has a different idea of what an acceptable level of risk looks like. For example, I'd never take both my young children swimming alone.

It's great that you could jump in to save your 4 year old, when they were in trouble, but what if something had happened to your other child at the same time?

There will be other parents that think the chance of something happening to two children, separately but at the same time, is so small it's worth the risk for a pool holiday. In the same way that other parents will think the risk of something happening in a group, or whilst they nip to the loo, or read their book (etc.) is small enough to ignore.

Agreed, because in spite of what posters are saying, it's not just luck that keeps children safe.

If you eliminate 9/10 chances for your child to drown, then you only have to be lucky once. If you only eliminate 5/10 chances, then you have to be lucky five times.

Taking it VERY seriously is what matters.

When our two were kids we always had a responsibility for one or the other. On planes we had a definite agreement that in case of emergency which one was ‘ours’. It was also agreed there was no looking back to assist in an evac situation. Luckily nothing ever happened like that.

The method we used for overseeing both of them was simply a charity type wrist band. Band on wrist = meerkat. No excuses.

They’ve now got their own to look after and yes, unfortunately the dads are the ones who fail to take it seriously. “Oh, don’t be ridiculous.” Is their mantra.

I’m guessing we all know our spouses well enough though…

RedhairDL you have reminded me of a trip to Alnwick Castle Gardens when DC was two and slipped off when we glanced away. There is a whole cascade of ponds there - I was terrified for those five loooong minutes it took to find him.

Though there is an additional danger with water at Disney world Florida:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40855910

I don’t have kids and if I’m by a pool/lake whatever and see kids in without an adult I then feel I’m responsible for them and it pisses me off when I just want to do my own thing