Sophie Ellis-Bextor concert. Ugh

[IOnlyWantSexMoneyPowerAndRevenge]

Saw her last week. Good fun. I missed the opportunity to wear my glittery Christmas dress though.

We all know she has legs that go on for days and likes to show them off (so would I if I had them!). At various points during the show she had to bend over (dropped something and so on). Every single time, at least one man wolf whistled. One man started and then others thought it was OK to join in.

I mean, really? They weren't sat near me or I would have said something. It pissed me right off. We were there to sing and dance to a bit of disco and grotty men insist on making their thoughts knoen about how attractive she is. As if anyone cares.

Most of the audience were 50+ which somehow made it even more grim.

Yuk just yuk.

Have to say I agree with this. Faux innocence is irritating from a grown woman.

I’ve many women do this plus the whole bending over and dangling the cleavage thing.

She’s been around for nearly 30 years since she was in The Audience, so having fans in their 50s isn’t unexpected

I would find it more acceptable if someone said would you care for some company so my views haven't changed but it's OK to differ in this in respect.

Considering she is in her mid to late 40s also talented & gorgeous, why is it weird?

Or the recipient of the compliment could have just smiled politely and given them the brush off in a nice manner.

They could. and people, usually women have to do this, even when the bloke has been creepy. Women have to be nice so that a situation doesn’t escalate, But of course if you’re too nice, they then often think that no doesn’t really mean no because you’re being nice.

How about men just stop commenting on women’s look so soon after seeing them as @PhiladelphiaEagles said. Why is it on women to be nice about it, smile politely because we can’t upset them ffs. Why can’t they just behave appropriately? Why do so many people think men must be able to just go around saying whatever thought comes into their head and it’s for women to manage. Something really off about that.

I don't think there is anything at all inappropriate in using I think you look nice as a chat up line.

Oh and to the Mums of those entirely respectable lads that always behave with the upmost level of respect. I'm willing to bet if you were to see their true antics when outside the house you would be shocked. The same with parents of daughters.

Do you really think they are that much different from us when young free and single. 😆

But that goes back to my earlier comment about the expectation being on the recipient (woman) to control the situation eg
Man - can I buy you a drink?
Woman- no thank you
Man - but yours is empty?
Woman - I'm good thanks though
Man - here, Ive got you a drink. I know you said no but it's my treat.

Woman now seems unreasonable to tell the man she didn't want a drink and many people including other women think the man was just. "Being nice".

If you read my previous posts, I have always said that a polite thanks but no thanks should be followed by the person accepting it.

I had another friend keep winking at me then told me she could understand why women became lesbians. It's a compliment I suppose. I do think some middle aged women get fed up with their male partners and think being with a women might be easier. Personally, I couldn't do it but I have a lovely DH and just don't find woman sexually attractive.

Edited to add I don't know why I said that about how I dress. So I apologise about that.

But what does that mean? The subtext feels like women are asking for it? Is she really not allowed to bend over during a gig?!? Men really should be able to control themselves surely? We are back to that old trope that ‘she was wearing a short skirt so she’s asking for it’ …have we not moved on from that?

How do we stop people reacting to people they find attractive actively showing their underwear? Is it OK if they keep their thoughts to themselves? I mean they're still thinking "phoaw".

Well we cant help our thoughts can we? We have complete control over our behaviour.

I think my neighbour is a wazzock and I want to hit him. No amount of meditation is going to stop that. However, I chose not to hit him because I am a grown up and (mostly) have impulse control and know what is and isnt acceptable. The fucking wazzock.

I’m trying to work out if your posts are just naive or little insulting.
Women don’t decide their sexuality on a whim. They don’t become lesbian or bisexual just because they’ve had a poor partner. My sexuality is no reflection on the quality of my relationship with DH. I didn’t stop being bisexual just because I married a man.

I do think women get to a particular age and stage in their life where they have the confidence and time to explore their sexuality. When I’ve attended skirt club social events and spoken to the other women there I’ve found that lots of them have always known they were bisexual but never had the confidence to do anything about it. They spent their 20’s and 30’s raising children and they’re now at a stage where they want to do something for themselves- quite a few are there with their husbands knowledge and blessing.

There are women who get to the point where they are fed up with men but that doesn’t mean they’ll suddenly become a lesbian. It doesn’t work like that!

You don’t have to defend your sexuality. If you’re straight, you’re straight. It’s nothing to do with how lovely your DH is. I think I have the best husband in the world - still doesn’t change my sexuality!

It’s not about thoughts, it’s about behaviour.

Nobody is saying you stop finding someone attractive. What we’re saying is that you don’t turn those thoughts into inappropriate behaviour.

So it's OK for SEB to dress in a way which likely encourages people to think about her in a sexual way as long they don't outwardly react.

How is that different to 'asking for it'?
I'm not suggesting for a minute that she dress or behave differently, she is entitled to dress and behave exactly how she pleases.

It still makes me feel uncomfortable if I think a man is thinking about me in a way I am not comfortable with.

Naive.

Do you still go to SC? I dont understand why you would if you are fulfilled with your DH.

How do you plan on policing thoughts?

Yes, SEB or any woman can dress in a way that might encourage people to think about them in a sexual way. They can do that intentionally if they wish! That doesn’t mean they deserve to be subjected to sexually inappropriate behaviour.

But you can’t control peoples thoughts. You can’t control what or who people find sexually attractive.

If a woman wants to wear a short skirt, she should wear a short skirt. Men might think "nice legs love", but they dont need to shout "phwoar" when she walks past.

Sorry to break it to you but there will always be people who going to have thoughts about you that you dont like whether that is "phwoar" or "look at the state of that" people will ALWAYS have some sort of opinion on you and how you look. Take comfort thpugh because if they are strangers, that thought will vanish as soon as you have.

I think Marilyn Monroe said "what other people think of me is none of my business".

Very naive and insulting 🙄

Because I have friends there and I’ve helped organise social events in my area. It was typically very London centric so I helped set up a group for women outside of London.
I’m not having sex at these events, they’re brunches or cocktails in a public space.
There are play parties but they are optional.

No, not insulting. If you feel insulted then that's on you.

Your perceptions of bisexual and lesbian women have been borderline homophobic at times.
I’ve been giving you the benefit of the doubt and think that it is perhaps just incredible naivety but maybe you’ll think about your perceptions of sexual orientation and realise they’re not accurate 🤷🏼‍♀️

I fully agree. Unfortunately, bisexual women are used to this kind of prejudice from both ends - especially if we end up hitched to a man.

As for taking offence because a lone woman struck up a conversation with another lone woman and might even have been making discreet sexual overtures, I can assure them there is no need. Women do not represent the physical or level of social threat that men do; it is much easier to interact with them on a more equal and more respectful basis when they've at least taken the trouble to talk to you, and actually ask if you minded rather than claiming your time and attention as theirs by right (I've lost count of the number of men who have done this).

To give it some context, the woman in this scenario had been propositioned by a man who persued it with dogged persistence after she said 'no'. To seek the company of a fellow-female seems quite natural in the circumstances. And, were this a proposition, the question is quite clearly pitched so as to gauge discreetly whether the other person might be interested in them or not. It's respecful, and quite a different thing from heckling a woman or pestering her to accept a drink (the usual, cliched transaction in which sex is expected in exchange) and then getting upset when politely rebuffed.

Ironic that a happy encounter on this occasion should have occurred as a result of a man hassling a woman. Who'd have thought it, eh?

#SerafinasGoose

I can choose what I get offended by, thank you. I really didn't need to know that my mate and her DH fancied a threesome with me. It was quite embarrassing and not something I wanted in my brain. If it had been the DH who had made a pass he'd would have been called all the names.

I'm not homophobic either.

I'm going to see Sophie tomorrow night. I followed this thread with interest and it has jumped the shark a bit hasn't it?

To add to the conversation, a friend of mine told me some stories on Saturday night about when she and her former husband used to go out every Saturday night to what basically is a workingmen's club. They had the same seats, everyone had the same seats, that kind of vibe. They paired up with a couple (let's call them Janet and Dave) and went out socially with them. One night they got in a taxi and my friend sat at the end in the back next to Dave, his wife on his right and my friend's husband in the front. Dave put his hand up her skirt. She just batted it away, and felt it would cause trouble to do more than that.

On another occasion Dave followed her into the women's toilets and banged on the door "Are you in there?" and waited for her and tried to kiss her when she came out "You know you fancy me don't you?" Again she didn't want to upset her husband or Janet so she didn't say anything.

On a different night she got up dancing with a woman whose husband didn't want to dance to the band and she felt a pair of arms around her waist from behind and thought, although it wasn't what he usually did, it was her ex-husband. No it was "Jimmy" the resident sex pest.

She blamed herself because of what she wore which she described as a kick flare skirt above her knee but not a mini and a lace top which had a scoop neck and long sleeves. These men couldn't help themselves because they could see her bra through her top, as she told me.