Sophie Ellis-Bextor concert. Ugh

[IOnlyWantSexMoneyPowerAndRevenge]

Saw her last week. Good fun. I missed the opportunity to wear my glittery Christmas dress though.

We all know she has legs that go on for days and likes to show them off (so would I if I had them!). At various points during the show she had to bend over (dropped something and so on). Every single time, at least one man wolf whistled. One man started and then others thought it was OK to join in.

I mean, really? They weren't sat near me or I would have said something. It pissed me right off. We were there to sing and dance to a bit of disco and grotty men insist on making their thoughts knoen about how attractive she is. As if anyone cares.

Most of the audience were 50+ which somehow made it even more grim.

Yuk just yuk.

A boy telling a girl at college that she is pretty is OK though. As long as he didn't harass her. The Mum was being dramatic.

I wouldn’t have started a thread about it, but it depends on the circumstances as to whether it’s appropriate or not.

If a random boy told my teen daughter she was pretty, she wouldn’t really like it. Why would she care to know if he thought she was pretty?

A boy that she knows, who has read the room, knows she would like to be told that by him, all good.

Girls and women aren’t all waiting around to receive feedback on how they look. I’m not sure why some men think we are.

Whilst I was running recently, a man told me I looked hot . When I told him to fuck off, he asked what my problem was as he was ‘being nice and it was a compliment’. Erm, no.

Hot is not the same as pretty. Hot is sexual. I can't be arsed to argue. Plenty of girls would like to be complimented as do boys.

I don't know how some of you watch romantic movies without pulling it apart, like the Notebook.

Yes it is. When I was 9 months pregnant with my first born, 1993, I was walking to the local shop and a group of builders decided to wolf whistle me. I had a bump out front, it was clearly there. I was shocked and visibly upset. The woman serving me was most sympathetic.

On my way back the gaffer was waiting and apologised most profusely. Now why would he do that?

They do, but the point is you should read the room first to see if it something that is likely to be liked by the individual because not everyone likes it, especially from randoms they don’t know. I don’t need random men’s validation that I look nice. Some men seem to think I must be waiting on their approval. They’re always the nobs.

Absolutely this.

I think the thread I'm talking about the young man was chatting to the OP's Daughter and they were getting along. The Daughter found it as a compliment and just told her Mum she had been chatting to a boy and he'd told her she was pretty. I don't think he was a nob. Just a boy complimenting a girl.

Yes, there are a lot of nobs out but there are some genuine guys out there. I had an abusive ex but I'm married to the most amazing man. I have a lot of women & men friends.

I have a Son and have taught him to respect people. He has a lot of values like not sleeping with a girl when she's drunk.

I still think a wolf whistle at a concert shouldn't be an issue for the OP. SEB probably did for hear it and if OP was upset she probably needs to grow a pair.

You know some weird men. I tend to know intelligent men.

@PuzzledPartridge You seem to be suggesting that those of us who are calling out inappropriate sexual behaviour think all men are behave that way, don’t know any nice intelligent men and are trying to stop perfectly normal conversations.
Youre ignoring the nuance and complexity of the situations we’re discussing.

I know some wonderful men. I have a fabulous DH and DS. I’ve known men with no qualifications behave like absolute gents and I’ve been sexually harassed by intelligent, professional men.

I no longer get upset by sexually inappropriate comments, I don’t need to ‘grow a pair’ as per your suggestion if that type of behaviour upsets you.
It doesn’t stop me getting angry and frustrated that women are still subjected to that type of behaviour.

I disagree. You seem massively invested in being ‘right’ on this thread. I find Wolf whistling unacceptable behaviour in this day and age. I don’t think it’s a compliment. I think cat calling and wolf whistling are about power and intimidation. I don’t need to ‘grow a pair’.

So you are married to a man and a member of the skirt club too and also have a DS. OK.

At a gig I wouldn't get upset. I never said it was acceptable in the street.

Yes.
I’m bisexual not lesbian, therefore I find men and women sexually attractive.
I’m married to a man and we have a child. My membership of SC predates me meeting my husband. He knows about it and knows I’m bisexual.

I brought up SC because you (and others) were claiming that it’s impossible to flirt any more and express you’re attracted to someone because women get offended. My membership of SC is a perfect example of that not being true. I’ve witnessed flirting and women express their feelings of attraction all without the need to use sexually inappropriate language or behaviour.
If men struggle with that then they need to look at their behaviour rather than the reaction of the recipient.

I am bisexual too. 27 years with a male partner, married with DC. Bisexual people don't 'disappear' if they enter into a more conventional relationship. We are still bisexual. (Edited to add, this isn't a suggestion that the PP has in any way implied this - just a point addressing the general prejudice often experienced by bisexual people).

I have never once in my life 'wolf-whistled' at another woman, been groped by a woman, or had to fight off any form of unwanted sexual attention from a woman. I have been asked, politely, when alone in the right form of setting, whether I would care for some female company.

The difference is quite marked. QED.

Thats not a very intelligent comment as you have completely missed the point.

The whole point is that I don’t know them and they don’t know me, which is why they shouldn’t be making comments on my appearance or wolf whistling. The men that I choose to have in my life are respectful to women, if they weren’t, they wouldn’t be in my life.

Interesting you wouldn't be offended if a woman asked you if you would 'care for some female company' I would be more shocked & offended by that than any wolf whistle 😳

How is a polite conversation more offensive than being whistled at like a dog?

Beats the hell out of me.

Unquestionably some lesbians can be predatory. But there is a firm line of consent that, IMO, divides women in a very marked way from men. Most women tends to respect that line and when you say a firm 'no', the word 'no' is precisely what they hear. They don't reinerpret it to mean what they want it to mean.

I wholeheartedly agree. There seems to be an understanding that ‘no’ is a complete sentence.

A woman has never asked me to justify my answer, try to change my mind or got aggressive or nasty with me because I said no. Unfortunately, the same can’t be said for some men.

I’ve also never been wolf whistled at, cat called or been groped by a woman.

How about teaching your daughter some life skills on how to politely turn down an advance. There is nothing creepy about it, and providing the person takes the hint then no harm done whatsoever.

I have noticed quite a lack of comprehension and inference skills from a few posters on this thread, or maybe they just like blaming girls and women for things. 🧐

Have I said we haven’t taught our daughter these skills or that she doesn’t know how to do this? No I haven’t. But there will be many girls and women who may learn how to deal with creepy men in theory, but in practice, find it harder for a variety of reasons. Just because girls and women often know how to deal with this shit, because we have to deal with it from a young age, doesn’t mean we can’t talk about it being inappropriate or that it’s ok.

We also taught my son to be respectful. If more parents did that and less people excused the behaviour, that would do more good.

And yes, it is creepy for an unknown person to comment on your looks for some of us. You may be ok with it, others are not, so it shouldn’t be done without reading the room.

Exactly right. I'm also the mother of a son. Perhaps it would be better if we taught our young boys that the world isn't lining up to hear their opinion any more than it's eager for women's input (some chance eh)? Decently brought-up men are well aware that women are not put upon this planet to decorate it for their benefit: why, then, should any girl care what a complete stranger thinks of her physical appearance? (Much less expect female strangers to 'smile love!' because they think women owe them 'pretty').

Cliches like 'the better part of valour is discretion' became cliches for a reason. It is not always down to women to moderate their behaviour for the benefit of men, who receive a free pass with some women cajoling other women to accommodate their every whim. Teach your sons that if they want to get to know a woman then ary talking to her as though she's an actual human being, not an empty vessel put there for their titillation.

Parenting in this respect has some catching up to do. This BS starts from a very young age, and it begins in the home.

Several years ago when out with friends some of whom were single, this conversation came up.

An attractive female friend had an average looking guy come up and say something complimentary about her. He was according to her so insensitive and misogynistic etc.
However later in the day when a guy she did find attractive did the same thing, it was entirely OK and very much welcome.

The rest of our group quite rightly pointed out her double standards. The general consensus was we don't get to decide who finds us attractive, and providing both parties were polite in the rebuttal there was absolutely no harm whatsoever.

We often comment on here about todays youngsters not being resillient. No wonder if parents are not teaching their children the art of conversation including being chatted up.

I have found lots of people attractive over the years, what I haven’t done is feel I must tell them, without knowing if they would appreciate my comments. It’s possible to find people attractive without commenting on it.

In your friends case, if neither man had offered their opinion on her, that would have solved the issue.

For me, it wouldn’t matter how attractive a man is. I wouldn’t want their comments on my appearance when I don’t know them. Your ‘general consensus’ doesn’t speak for all of us. Men just need to stop, and as a pp said, read them room first.

Most parents do teach their children conversation skills. As parents of daughters, we have to teach our girls to deal with unwanted attention because so many boys and men can’t behave appropriately. As parents of a son, we have raised our son to respect girls and women. He’s disgusted with the comments his teen sister, female friends and his GF get from random blokes.

What? I don’t want to suggest you are homophobic, but that is weird.