To want to leave the US but DH is dead against it?

[BotAsp]

Bit of a rant tbh. We’ve been in the States nearly 6 years now (moved for DH’s job), and I’m just so done. The politics, the healthcare stress, the guns in schools — all of it. DD is 4 and starting pre-K in Sept and I’m lowkey freaking out. It all feels so alien and I just want her to grow up somewhere I don’t have to worry about lockdown drills or insane medical bills for a cough. I miss the NHS like mad.

DH thinks I’m being dramatic. He loves it here, his job is good, we’ve got a nice house, etc etc. But I feel so trapped. We barely have any proper support, I feel like I’m constantly having to translate everything — culture, language, even bloody humour. I’m homesick and just want to be able to pop round to my mum’s with DD and not need a 10-hour flight and 3 weeks off work to do it.

I’ve tried talking to him but he shuts it down every time. Says I’m not thinking long-term and we’d regret moving back. But honestly I don’t see how it’s worse than this? I’d take a smaller house and rain over anxiety meds and school shootings.

Has anyone been in this boat and come out the other side? Just feel like I’ve got no one to talk to here who gets it. Don’t want to drag DD back and resent DH forever but don’t want to stay and go quietly mad either.

Is it me? AIBU?

I’m from neither the US nor UK but through my DH’s job we had the opportunity to live in either UK or US and we chose the UK for many reasons after discussing with other expats.

We’ve been in the UK for nearly 20 years and have not regretted it. Depending on what you do the standard of living in the UK can actually be higher than the US. Even things like private healthcare are far cheaper here so I’d rather have NHS with private as a backup than pay exorbitant amounts for only private on the US. Private education is also cheaper here relative to salaries for most.

Lived in the US with a young child pre-Trump. While there were some positive aspects (weather, travel) on the whole, I really really disliked it. The violence, the ignorance within their culture (of the world, of anyone in the slightest bit different, the RACISM OMG). I had a green card which I know is aspirational for many.

Luckily, my husband agreed to come back to the UK. I would have left him and done it alone if he hadn't agreed.

I did go back on holiday once, to see family there but even while on holiday, I couldn't imagine ever living there again. I happily let my green card expire.

Having lived in 4 other countries in addition to the US & UK, I can say hand on heart, the US was by far the worst place I've ever lived. And I think it's much worse now, under Trump.

I think you need to lay it on the line for him. Remaining in the US will end your marriage eventually. You're really unhappy and you would never have agreed to go if you'd realised it was going to be permanent.

Edited to say... as far as education for your daughter goes. I know we in the UK slate the state of British education. BUT British teachers are widely held as the best trained in the world (possibly excepting Scandinavia). US educated children are on average 2 years behind British children and at university level, US students attending uni in the UK have to do a foundation year to get them to UK A Level standard (so, doing an extra year of study because they come in at a much lower level). My DC started school in the US and then transferred to UK. They were SO far behind the British kids. Thankfully it was primary and they caught up.

I moved back after 5.5 years before dd1 started kindergarten, she missed reception in the U.K. but I homeschooled her the curriculum, i didn’t want to put my kids into American public schools

Oh come on, no shootings

You sound homesick, and after 6 years I can totally imagine why you'd want to move back home. Your DH really needs to at least engage in a discussion about it.

I do wonder whether it's worth trying a bit longer and changing a few things to see if you'd settle in a bit more. You mention working remotely for a UK based company - could you try and get a job locally, out of the house where you can meet other people? Similarly, once your DD starts school you might you're thrown into a new community. Lastly, moving to a different city could make a big difference. I lived in an East coast city with a big Brit expat community.

If and when you do move back to the UK - which is totally valid, money and house size aren't everything - then just be prepared for some reverse culture shock. I don't think the UK is as bad as some PP say, but there are obviously some issues - COL, low wages, stretched public services. However I have to say I've been happy with the state schooling and I don't recognise the issues that PP have mentioned.

And on the other hand there are lots of good things about the UK - culture, temperate climate, easy travel to Europe etc.

You’re not unreasonable to feel as you do, but nor is your husband unreasonable to prefer the US to the UK and not want to move.

Your child may be a British citizen, but they’re also a US citizen resident in the US. Unless your husband is willing to relocate with you, give you permission to take your child to the UK, or you’re willing to go alone, you are however quite stuck.

We moved to the US and are generally quite happy. I don’t think this can be an objective “which country is better” choice. as a pp said sometimes it’s just what you’re used to. There are things I miss even though I think the Us was the right choice for us. People on MN are often overly negative about the US. I don’t think I’d be keen on a smaller place in the Midwest though I will say it makes a difference which one. Madison is a very different business to Des Moines!

The big issue here is that you and your DH aren’t communicating and you need to get on the same page with your future. I’m going to sound overly American, but a couples therapist might actually be what you need right now.

We barely have any proper support, I feel like I’m constantly having to translate everything — culture, language, even bloody humour. I’m homesick and just want to be able to pop round to my mum’s with DD and not need a 10-hour flight and 3 weeks off work to do it.

I think this is your most legitimate concern - and it’s a big one. You’re feeling isolated from your extended family and the cultural differences are making you feel like a stranger in a strange land. That’s extremely stressful, and I’d be very frustrated if my husband was changing the deal about how long to stay in the US.

As for school shootings - they’re national (international?) news because they’re uncommon. Your child is more likely to be killed in a motor vehicle accident; any statistics about “gun violence is the leading cause of death for children in the US” are including teenage legal adults in the definition of “children.” If you don’t keep a gun in the house, don’t live in a neighborhood with frequent gun violence, and your child isn’t going along with people who are going hunting, there’s such a minuscule chance of her being killed by a gun that it’s not worth the worry. (Worth the caution, but not worth the worry.)

FWIW, the biggest risk for guns is improper home storage. And neighbourhood violence in some areas.

I think that your plan to do some research and cone up with viable options back in the UK (jobs, where to live, schools, etc.) is a good one. You do need to have some things lined up before you return. I can see why you’re not particularly enjoying living where you are, it wouldn’t suit a lot of people.

Re. Returning with your DD. You are going to face problems unless your DH agrees that you can take her or he comes with you.

As someone who moved away from the UK (but not to the US) I understand the feeling. It’s easier in my case because I don’t miss ‘home’ at all, and my parents have actively discouraged me returning to the UK because of how much has negatively changed since 2019, but I also equally don’t feel settled here - even after 6 years - it’s hard feeling stuck in a third place where you’re not really understood and don’t share the cultural upbringing. It’s driven me to depression too.

We had a friend who moved to the US with their young family - the parents ended up wanting to return back to Leicester to be near their parents and old neighbourhood. So they duly returned after more than 10 years in the US. The oldest child refused to leave - he was 18 and had a green card so there was nothing they could do. The younger daughter also felt ‘more American’ and moved back to be with her brother as soon as she was old enough - it completely ripped the family apart. On top of that, their grandparents they’d moved back for both died within 18 months, and now they’re without their kids, parents, and one couldn’t get a high paying job again. The area they moved back to in Leicester had changed a lot also, with much higher crime. They’ve since tried to move back, but haven’t been able to.

I'm going to suggest marriage counseling too. Regardless of the issue, communication channels have to stay open and shutting down your partner is a really bad habit that needs to be addressed.

It sounds as if you've been hit by the seven year blahs. Language is used very differently, cultural references are alien and have reached the point of intolerability, and you're now facing the prospect of your child skipping off to join another tribe and embark on a journey through a system that is unfamiliar. It's very natural to yearn for an environment where you can blend in and feel fully yourself.

I'd go to a doctor and see if medication would help, quite frankly, but in combination with a solemn promise from your husband that he will engage in marriage counseling in good faith.

As many have pointed out, 'going home' doesn't mean paradise regained. It's more a case of swapping one set of problems for another. Don't make plans until there's a big improvement in your marital communication issues or while still suffering from mh issues (however mild).

Would it be worth looking at a move to a bigger city? Small town life is the definition of stultifying, and it's very easy to feel very isolated in that environment.

As far as details go, your child will do lockdown drills, fire drills, and tornado drills in school - fire drills and lockdown drills will be a feature of UK school life too. School will have small class sizes and an emphasis on social and emotional development in the early years that may feel strange. There is a lot of wolisdom behind the approach.

Your child will make friends in the coming years, and you may well get to know a lot more people that way. Schools are always looking for parents to volunteer for the PTA or to do fundraising or to volunteer in classrooms. You will meet people and form new connections if you give yourself a chance.

I would write him a letter. Then you have the chance to reread it, be clear and to the point. Remind him of the number of years you both agreed on, and tell him that you would not have accepted otherwise. Ask him to respect the initial agreement. Nothing worse than living in a place you don't want to live in.
Having said that, it is not 'now or neverish'. Children change countries and schools all the time, no one gets traumatised by it. I'd say it's better to move a child from a country and a school before they start high school, but that's hardly around the corner for you. It doesn't mean she'll get traumatised from moving any time before she becomes a teen (or even then). Children adapt very easily. I know dozens of children who moved countries and schools more than once, and most enjoyed the change rather than resent it. It is the parents who make a big deal of it.

I've lived in the US for over 20 years now, but I don't think my experience will be particularly relevant to your problem. I have no kids, and also the move was due to very particular circumstances. Leaving was a wrench, and it took me a long time to get used to American ways. Now, though, I don't want to leave. I live in Southern California and it's an amazing place. (Oh, and my husband goes to work by bus! You can find places that have good public transport, even here.)

Remember the three rules:

You can't fight the phone company;
the waitstaff won't see you until they're ready to see you;
and you can't go home again.
That's because "home" will be very, very different, and so will you. The UK will already have changed, but you will find your feet far more easily than I would if I went back. So if you really want to move, as you clearly do, you should do it now, even apart from the age your daughter is at (and taking her away from her new friends and activities would be unfair). Talk to your DH and make it clear how unhappy you are.

What?? Where are there lockdown drills?

I think in most schools now? Definitely in the Midlands as my children had them.

Even in the most Western of West Wales there are these lockdowns - as much as the US is criticised for the guns and other major issues I'm sure that there are major areas there that absolutely safe.

How schools prepare for 'code red' incidents such as the Wales school stabbing
It comes after three people were injured following a stabbing at Amman Valley School in South Wales
Amman Valley school, in Ammanford, Wales, went into lockdown over a stabbing incident (Photo: Ben Birchall/PA)

Connie Dimsdale
Education and News Reporter
April 26, 2024 6:00 am (Updated 8:06 am)
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Air horns, intruder drills and lockdowns. These might not sound like a typical school day, but children are being taught to prepare for “code red” incidents, such as shootings and knife crime.
Serious security incidents are rare in the UK, but headteachers, teachers and pupils have a tailored blueprint for tackling emergencies.
Schools preparedness for on-site crime has come under new scrutiny following a stabbing at Amman Valley School – also known as Ysgol Dyffryn Aman – in Ammanford, Carmarthenshire.

I've worked at one school that had a drill. Like @Utterlyexhausted I'm in the midlands.

The children just had to stay in their seats quietly, they were allowed to read. It is not, as far as I know, the same as in the US.

OP Ask your DH how he would cope as a single parent if you moved 'home'.

I would also discuss health care with him, make him realise that in the US female healthcare is, well it isn't great. Women being discharged after mastectomy with a drain in. That would not happen here.

Agree to put aside as much as you can for a deposit on a small UK residence which you can rent out.
You will have choices of where to live in the future.
Otherwise, ask DH if he would consider searching for a very good job, if not in the UK, in another place in the World like The Netherlands, Denmark, Australia, Italy etc.
Is your daughter born in the US?
Will you be having anymore children?

I feel you, deeply.

We are also in the states due to DH’s job, and it’s not the kind of job where we had a choice 🫠 The powers that be tell us where we are going and we upend our lives and go there. We’ve been in our current location 2 years, and I was ready to go home to the U.K. after 2 weeks 🫠
All the reasons you describe are the same reasons I want to leave (except for the healthcare part, we are incredibly fortunate to have a full healthcare, dental and optometry package paid for by DH’s work).
The DC’s are getting older, and I can’t bear the thought of them getting sucked into thinking so much of the madness is normal.

Genuinely - from a Welsh person - what is the 'madness' - we all see the papers and the news etc from the UK about life in the US - but what is the realism 'madness'

TIA

I'd base my thinking on @mathanxiety 's post.

I do think an internal move might be worth contemplating. My dp's sister moved to the US with her husband about 20 years ago. They've lived in a couple of places. She now has a red line that there is basically only one place she will live in the US (a city in California).

Agree 100% with a PP who said American schools tend to be behind, very surprised to hear someone say that they found the UK less academically rigorous. I’ve worked in several international schools which follow the British curriculum and any US students always massively struggled at first - even those who were naturally bright - because it was at least a year ahead of what they’d been learning previously.

I couldn’t live somewhere where school shootings were an even somewhat regular thing, that’d just be a complete non negotiable for me and any events that have happened in the UK in the last decade do not even compare to what happens in the US. But as you can see from this thread, people have offered lots of positives to the US too. Can you home school or get private education like PP says?

I really feel for you OP. You must feel so ignored. Sending lots of love.

Taking the location out of it for a minute. Your DH is thriving at work and going out and meeting people and has someone at home doing the childcare. You are working remotely and haven’t found close friends locally so your set up is not helping.
Could you get a job there which gets you out of the house? Would he be able to pick up more of the domestic stuff? I know US companies don’t always have a great reputation for flexibility and family friendly policies.
At the moment you are facilitating his preferred lifestyle so you get a say.
Could you even move within the US to somewhere that might feel better culturally?

On the whole, schools in the UK are very safe. I never worried one bit sending my children to school, if I lived in the US, i’d be home schooling until I got out of there. No the UK is not perfect, but it’s on a whole different level with safety in schools. Most kids have a gun in the family home, and a lot of the time they know the code to the gun safe, incase of an intruder. Teens make impulsive choices, that is clear. The fact they have easy access to gun would terrify me, even sending a child for a play date.

I think living abroad is not all its cracked up to be. Homesickness says in ,And it's easy to romanticise your home country. We are not perfect ,however 6 rounds of chemo ,and 3 month check ups scans all free for me. Excellent care new hospital.msybe different elsewhere. We live south coast. You have given it a good go .can you do an extended holiday here ,say 6 weeks .have a look round at houses schools .trips to London, the country side.see if he can resist after seeing all the goodies on offer here!