To agree with increasing tax and more benefit cuts to pay for defence

[Viviennemary]

I was surprised to hear that Labour is to spend more on defence. We really do need to with the threats from Russia and run down of weapon stocks because they have been given to Ukraine. All of Europe needs to wake up. But I think they realise this.

He wants to include things like new roads and railway lines as defence spending to make it more palatable to get to 5%.

Roads and railway lines are considered defense infrastructure as they provide interior lines of communication. If your country is invaded, they allow you to move troops and equipment rapidly and in large numbers to where they are needed. The massive interstate highway system built in the US in the late 1950s was funded partly as a defense expenditure.

National Interstate and Defense Highways Act (1956)

The attacker has exterior lines of communication, which are longer, slower and easier to interdict.

Yes you're right. I'm aware of that. The point I was making is that building a tram stop in Stockport doesn't help our depleted equipment and personnel.
We have form in the UK for not putting the money where it's truly needed. I've seen it first hand.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-uk-and-nato-expected-to-agree-to-a-trump-inspired-pledge-for-5-on-defence-spending-but-watch-out-for-smoke-and-mirrors-13379213

There are quite a few either Russian bots or very naive and not very intelligent people who read Russian propaganda elsewhere and brought it here.

Russia now and Russia during the first two years of the war are two different countries. In 2025, they are spending around 43% of their total budget on "defence". Pretty much every second rouble now is spent on things that can kill you or your children in a few years.

Maybe we shouldn't have given all our weapons to Ukraine. In fact we should've just kept out of it full stop. Switzerland have right idea

Yes indeed and the question is what happens to all that capacity.

It is a reasonable question to ask. Adjusted for purchasing power parity, Russia now spends more on military than the whole of Europe + UK, and the growth has been exponential. It is a textbook war economy now. Unfortunately, they were able to plug in gaps caused by sanctions by developing domestic technology and partnering with China. And whilst the political discourse can be changed almost overnight, especially in dictatorships, the economic inertia is a much more difficult beast to handle.

They may be considered defence infrastructure but warfare has moved on
Roads and rail lines are not as necessary as they once were and it’s not like we are a third world country with mud lanes and donkeys for transport.

Using defence money for these is not using it for defence in the real sense. It’s just pushing budgets around

An increased % funding for actual improved and updated tech / defence / armed forces is putting the money where it’s needed.

Strength and support not zebra crossings

And i bet trump has a waxwork!!

@caringcarer
The Front page of the Times today might be of interest as it’s relevant to your concerns

ie discussions re migration changes to the ECHR ….

I thought they might a while back, not surprising. I’m not a subscriber might have to buy an actual paper for once.

Interested to know how big the changes are.

Well you heard wrong. The planned cut to disability benefits will affect over a million people with significant needs. What it means is that those needs won’t be met and they will struggle. The government has signalled that only the most severe disabilities will be supported.

It’s spot on. Rather than tax the wealthy OP’s suggesting the most vulnerable should pay.

l think it’s difficult for those who are not disabled or are carers to appreciate realise how many significantly disabled people will lose standard and even high rate PIP daily living. This will remove support altogether for significant needs which will still have to be addressed. With the loss of PIP, there will be the loss of carers allowance, meaning many carers will be unable to continue to provide that care because they cannot longer manage financially and have to return to work/increase their hours.

The carers allowance, and rates of PIP daily living at both standard and enhanced rates are significantly less than the cost of providing local authority care for the people who lose support, so the government hasn’t saved a penny. All they’ve done is hugely increased the cost and shifted it elsewhere - onto an already broken care system. But l guarantee you, when these cuts take effect, all you’ll hear is the boasting about the savings in benefits. You won’t hear anything about the real cost - human, or financial - because it doesn’t fit the narrative.

And yet somehow they are still not making any advances in Ukraine, Ukraine have been able to occupy the Kursk region for 10 months and have also struck their strategic bombers deep within their borders. I'm still not seeing the threat to UK or Europe.

Perhaps Labour feel fairly assured voters won’t go that far even if impacted by this. They still seem to get support generally on here even if not approval of a specific policy.

Whilst its true there is no immediate threat from Russia, do we wait until there is?
Upping defence in a democracy, takes years, we need to be starting now, well actually 3 years ago.... thanks Rishi!!

We can see what Trump thinks of Putin, he likes and admires him... Trump said Putin will retaliate harshly against Ukraine, Trump did not warn off Putin....

"If" and i think maybe more "when" Trump limits or even halts military aid to Ukraine, how will they cope then?

I'm incredulous that tory supporters don't support increased defence spending, then again, i shouldn't be, they supported the run down of our defences for the last 14 years, whilst taking Russian money for their party & doing their bidding over Brexit too, which was backed by Putin.

As there is no formal policy on disability reforms or cuts as the opposition would characterise them, we simply do not know but what is not sustainable is 25% of the adult pop. claiming disability benefits, this has soared since Covid & far exceeds the European average.

But Russia have been shown to not be a serious threat, a paper tiger who is kept at bay by a country a quarter of its size/population. So why are we now so keen to divert resources away from the rest of the country to the military industrial complex?

You keep saying this but you're missing the actual posts for some reason. Again it's about taxes not the increase.

@Noodlewave you have a point and the main difference is the US. They no longer wish to pay as much so are asking others to even if the threat is as you say. Which is why the Labour war talk is bluster, it's really more about being asked to put hands in pockets.

Are you aware that this is happening because Ukraine is making an almost unimaginable sacrifice, quite literally bleeding to death right now? I left the country about twenty years ago, yet more than ten people I personally knew well (schoolmates, family friends, relatives) have been killed in the war. Try to project it onto your own life. I go back every month to deliver aid, and each time there are more and more KIA or MIA from the regiments we’re supporting. You shake hands with a soldier in April, and by May they're dead, replaced by someone else. Someone's son or daughter, someone's mum or dad, again and again. Vast swathes of land, areas comparable to UK counties, that were once among the best agricultural fields in the world are now saturated with toxic residues from shelling or have been turned into minefields. 14% of civilian housing stock destroyed (but remember, Russia hits only military targets by their own assertion).

Which country would you be willing to sacrifice next to the same extent, once Ukraine is chewed through? There are options, you know: Poland, the Baltics… perhaps Finland? So that people in the UK can continue to live without feeling any threat, well, at least for some time.

It is horrendous, and a couple of months ago I hoped the fighting would end, but the deal proposed by Russia is too far out there.

How do you see this going over the next few years? Is it winnable by Ukraine?

I’m not a subscriber either but I was able to squint and zoom in when it was posted as a ‘Here’s tomorrows headlines article’.

They didn’t say what they would do
They acknowledge many countries are calling for more autonomy over how to deal with migration, mentioning the UK as one
They are willing to talk and
Are aware the current ‘policy’ is outdated.
They noted their ‘policies’ are not set in stone

Overall I got the impression from the front page they will look at changing how illegal migration is dealt with after discussions with each country that has concerns.

There was a lot of support among the disabled community for Labour. I suspect that will no longer be the case if these cuts go ahead.

I believe most people who are familiar with the situation agree by now that any agreement with Russia, no matter how good or bad, holds little to no real value. Although many think the war began in 2022, it actually started back in 2014/15 with parts of eastern regions and Crimea occupied. Since then, there have been two significant peace accords with Russia, both of which they blatanty violated (or rather, never followed in the first place). Ukraine has turned to the UN multiple times over these breaches with ample evidence, but with Russia holding a Security Council seat, obviously nothing came of it. In short, any treaty with Russia is effectively meaningless now.

To answer your question about the prognosis, I’m not a seasoned military expert like most others in this thread seem to be - I’m simply doing my best to contribute.