To agree with increasing tax and more benefit cuts to pay for defence

[Viviennemary]

I was surprised to hear that Labour is to spend more on defence. We really do need to with the threats from Russia and run down of weapon stocks because they have been given to Ukraine. All of Europe needs to wake up. But I think they realise this.

They moment they are granted asylum, they are no longer "so called asylum seekers".

Is that not the Trickle Down economics theory that’s. been debunked? A stronger economy is good (obviously) but that alone doesn’t guarantee that everyone benefits if a tiny proportion of the population is taking all the wealth. You need to do both.

And the wealth gap is growing. That’s a fact and not just an “argument”:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59565690

https://equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk/#:~:text=The%2520UK's%2520wealth%2520inequality%2520is%2520much%2520more,according%2520to%2520the%2520Office%2520for%2520National%2520Statistics.&text=The%2520UK%2520has%2520a%2520wealth%2520GINI%2520coefficient%2520of%252074.6%25.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/inequalities/2024/10/29/the-uks-wealth-gap-has-grown-by-50-in-eight-years/#:~:text=The%20value%20of%20assets%20has,already%20in%20the%20top%2010%25.

Some people (and not immigrants, benefit claimants or the sick and disabled) have been getting very very rich while the rest of us have been getting poorer. That’s not a coincidence.

Pensioners are paid in accordance with how long they have been paying in. There’s a clear correlation
Just the same principle with how much people pay in to a private pension

It is not the same as other taxes that pay for everything else.

Do you know this for a fact? I wonder what happens to all the people escaping wars then

If I was escaping war I’d go to Ireland or France because they are the nearest safe spaces for me.
I wouldn’t go across Europe to Italy. What’s the point if all I want is a safe place to wait it out till I can return when my own country is safe.

People chose the UK however. Why?
We aren’t the first safe country as no country that borders us is at war.

They’ve paid into the system through NI so why should they not get a state pension? Bizarre thing to suggest unless you start giving people the option to opt out of NI if they are not going to get anything at the end of it.

yes, absolutely. Welfare state, workers rights, NHS, the entire package was so much more generous before WWII, that was the reason our grandparents went to fight with Nazis.

And now Russia and China have so much better social security and way of living, why to fight.
🙄

Bizarre that you think a war 80 years can accurately reflect what some people suffer today.

How about we dust off our redcoats and muskets to deal with Trump lol

That is correct. But we're talking here about a very small group of a highly mobile people, not even those with 10m worth of assets, but handful of truly wealthy ones. You simply can't tax them at a country level, it has to be a global system which will never be implemented.

If you step back and look at the last 10-15 years - SM ruling every aspect of our lives, selling lifestyle which has never been achievable for majority and thus making it expected rather than a rare exception. People are generally getting dumber (https://archive.ph/C8rFg) .

The frustration is turning onto neighbours who are just a bit wealthier / doing better, not true global wealth elite. All these talks about tax rises are to tax people who are on what? 100k, 150k? have state pension? people who mostly worked really smart or hard and had some inspiration to achieve. They are taxed to the bone and push them more they'll just drop out of this all together so no more left in the pot to pay for the likes of Weyland.

People who work must be substantially, by very large margin, better off than those out of work. Benefits should be very time limited, to allow to retrain and find another job, but not last for years. Only truly disabled should be supported, but supported generously.

And yes, I do think there is a reasonably sized group in our society, and youth in particular, who'd benefit a lot from being taken from the streets and put in armed service.

Yes. This is 100% correct.

Odd way of thinking?!😂

We absolutely can and should tax assets of the 1% more to pay for defence rather than pushing it onto people who have poor health or disabilities. Tax assets like land and close the loopholes like they do in other countries. And no, that does not mean taxing Mary on £150K more.

Which is why i specifically said "if given asylum, they can claim UC..."

No need to post links i already know about if my post is actually read....

Well I think it’s going to be both, but cuts before tax increases.

Let’s read the tea leaves; the Americans are pulling out eventually. They are focussing on China.

It’s also sensible for us because Russia has now completely retooled to be a war economy. Even if there were peace Ukraine next week, they would be better armed and resourced for conflict than for 40 years. I don’t think that if that war ends, it’s goes back to how it was.

Which tax increases will Labour do next? They’ve already taxed and borrowed more.

And pledged not to do more. They will have to deal with the finances they created and have.

ETA the love for the war talk is a cover for that incompetence.

In Scotland land ownership is concentrated so 432 that’s less than 0.001% of the population own more than half the country.

Are they paying much tax? Probably not, if they introduce a land tax do I think they will be coughing up, probably not. There will be loopholes and business exemptions.

As a person who owns a house worth about 300k, will I get shafted? Probably. I think our elected officials invariably get there with a bit of help along the way, funding, a chat with the right people. Promises are made and they are beholden so the really rich are fine and everyone else is fucked.

You re rowing against the tide there, any views on what Russia is doing or Trump and his very luke warm support of NATO?

The Tories slashed defence, even went into last years election, promising to cut infantry even further.

btw Economy doing ok, growth up, wages up, OECD forecasts upgraded & the promised devastation of UK business hasn't happened, in fact the opposite, business confidence up, still room for improvement but its heading upwards....

So close the loopholes. I am tired of hearing these excuses when other countries manage things much better for their citizens. It is almost as though UK citizens have been gaslit into feeling that they don’t deserve the basics and can’t be bothered to fight. Maybe it is suffering decades of useless politicians…

Let’s hope it keeps going that way. A lot of assumptions that UK policy has relied on for the last 50 years are shifting like sand.

Even if Trump goes, it’s foolish to imagine that the Americans will suddenly re prioritize Europe. There is a school of thought that Trump really not that different to a lot of American thought about Europe, thought his expression is extreme. This you see in his trade policy too.

Russia have taken 3 years to occupy ~20% of Ukraine with enormous losses of men and equipment. That doesn't scream to me that we need to ramp up defence spending. Why should we be so scared of them?

If it’s as good as you and Labour go on about great no tax rises necessary.

I would suggest it’s their total disregard for their own people and pursuit of this goal that should worry us. A rational leader would not have done this, would they?

There are not wars in many countries illegal immigrants come from. They just want a chance to earn more money. Many pretend they are gay or Christian to avoid being sent back to their country not at war.

Are you serious? It is widely accepted that Bojo was involved in the withdrawal of Ukraine from peace negotiations in 2022. And he is still appearing over there from time to time quite literally shit stirring, though I admit that cannot say whether he has any official capacity.

That is just the most obvious and egregious example, plenty more for those who want to look

Were the peace negotiation terms the same from Russia as they are now? Have you read them recently?