To let DD leave 6th form to work in a pub!

[tralalaa1225]

DD struggled at school, we had a lot going on at home and she only just about scraped through GGSEs. It was bloody hard work keeping her on track and she barely did any revision. However her love of Drama won her a scholarship at a local private school and I was really hoping focusing on fewer subjects would re ignite some passion for her subjects.

She is now in lower 6th and tbh I’m sick of the battles trying to get her engege with the courses. Even Drama no longer holds any interest for her. She has a part time job at our local pub which she shows much more motivation for but we have regular arguments over the hours she works. Both me, her Dad and school have raised concerns about the job impacting on her school work but she takes no notice.

I know fundamentally she wants to leave 6th form, she feels a failure academically and much more of a success in her job. TBH I am sick of the battles and am on the cusp of giving her the ok to leave. Feels such a failure though and that she would ultimately regret walking away.
My other worry is that she has failed Maths GCSE twice now and says the recent 3rd attempt wasn’t any better. What happens then with applying for jobs without Maths?

I have been called into school several times by concerned teachers who are doing their best to support her but at 17 it seems utterly ridiculous

Do I just stand back and let her make this huge decision or keep persevering with school?

What does she actually want to do as a career? Does she have any aspirations for the future, or even an idea of how life might look (e.g. living in a city, or travelling, does she value money or happiness or working hours or travel opportunities)? Hospitality can pay quite well if she does it at a high level and the tips are good (sommeliers have a fab and interesting job for example), and hospitality can provide lots of travel opportunities too (bar work abroad for a few years might be really fun). I think speaking to her about what she wants long term will be better than focusing on the short term.
Once she knows what she wants long term, help her build stepping stones towards it - maybe it is 6th form but just 1 course, maybe it is work experience but somewhere else, maybe it is the pub for a year and then something else. She clearly has a good work ethic, it just needs focusing into a long term goal that she wants to achieve, and she probably can't see any long term advantage to doing 6th form right now (and if she's failing, she's probably right, a D in a drama A level isn't actually going to get her anywhere).
I'd also personally, charge rent if she quits school and works full time , even if you keep it and save it for her because she needs to understand that the money isn't for her to just do what she wants with in life.

She sounds exactly like I was at her age, down to the schooling and leaving college to work in a pub.

i just didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life back then and looking back I had undiagnosed adhd. My school called my parents in multiple times before my GCSEs but revising was just no interest to me.

When I was 19 it clicked what I wanted to do. I went back to college after a few years working in my chosen career to be able to progress onto further university training. I’m now successful in my chosen career and have learnt to manage myself well ever since.

she may follow along this route or she may not. What I always remember is how supportive my parents were though I suspect they were pulling their hair out.

My son quit college, he had a job cooking in a pub which he ended up preferring to education. He quit college, worked in the pub for a few months then decided to go to Cornwall with a friend. On day 4 after arriving there he had a fulltime job. He loves it, has been promoted a couple of times, earns more than me, surfs every day.

You can always go back to education. I went back to college at 21.

Well yes it is her life, but OP has to fund it.

No way would I allow her to leave 6th form to work in a pub only. I would want her enrolled on some sort of hospitality course alongside that if that is her desired career. Also, you'd be better spending money on a private tutor specialising in getting people through GCSE maths than paying the private school fees. I think she ought to get maths GCSE as that can come back to bite.

My niece started working as a glass collector and waitress at 16. At 25 she’d run her own pub with her partner as chef, and is now assistant manager for a higher end chain restaurant, and has been asked to work on the development of their new hotel offer. She did get A-levels, tried university but hated it, and has been basically independent since she was 18. It genuinely can be great if you work bloody hard and have initiative

My DD dropped out of A levels to work in a café, she was really unhappy and they just weren’t for her, I knew that she had a work ethic and great communication skills from working in the café so I wasn’t really that bothered. I think she probably has undiagnosed ADHD, she’s good at doing things in front of her but not organising herself to study Why she couldn’t really see the point, she always just wanted to work. After a while she got an apprenticeship working in a health service and then decided she wanted to train to be a nurse, and through a foundation course she now works in A&E and she’s great at it.

Loads of people kept telling me it would ruin her life, but it didn’t, it was the making of her, just a little bit of space to work out what she really wanted to do and make her own decisions and not feel bad about herself all the time because she was failing really helped.

Might not be the right thing for your DD, but on the other hand it might be!

Some of these responses are just shocking

So its likely that someone with ND cant manage or doesnt want to manage or doesnt suit the world of further education. How many times do we have to acknowledge that quite often those with ND are disadvantaged by being pigeon holed into 'education' because unlike in the old days, you dont find a lot of jobs around that ND people can connect with and flourish at or that unlike years ago you're expected to stick it out in education for more and more years than you used to. There are huge benefits to young people leaving school and getting jobs.

I also find it disturbing that according to some posters the solution to that might be to medicate her, that she will be 'better' on medication, ie medicate her so that she can engage with the world of FE even though she doesnt want to right now and thats not where her skills lie.

And then there are posts saying 'its ok, because she'll end up as a CEO or MD or high paid manager or high level member of staffing, running a pub, running a hotel' etc etc. Why is that the only thing that is 'ok'? Why does that have to be the likely future for it to be ok.

Shes clearly a worker, she likes it, its good for her, she has found something that matches her skill set and shes making good money for a young person of her age. She might find thats not her thing in a years time, she might want to stay right where she is, she might 'climb up the ladder' All of those things are ok.

What are we saying in society that we are so denigrating and dismissive of anything that isnt 6th form - university - gap year - nice middle class job steadily climbing the ladder?

Who do you think serves you in the restaurant, the pub, the shop, who empties your bins, mends the pot holes, cleans up in the hospital, answers the phone for your insurance company, any number of perfectly worthwhile and valuable jobs.

If she is enjoying her work in the pub, would she be interested in some kind of apprenticeship in the hospitality industry if there is anything available?

There are certainly more possible steps in life than traditional A level pattern but it is useful to have some kind of idea of future options eg what promoted posts may be available to her in future.

My DS dropped out of his A level course and moved to a modern apprenticeship a few years back and it suited him, he found the work place to be really interesting whereas he was showing no interest in his college course. He’s still employed by the company where he started the apprenticeship scheme, was taken on permanently and has recently had a promotion.

Many years ago, my DBro failed his A levels pretty spectacularly. He refused to resit and took up the trainee manager position he was offered in the pub/nightclub where he'd been working as a glass collector while in 6th form.

He has for decades earned 3-4 times what I ever did, degree and all. Forcing her to continue won't work OP and she will always have the option of doing further academic study/a degree later, if she wants.

Agreed. Why would she regret leaving if it's not her strength? Thousands of people do well on alternative or late entry paths. Help her find a really interesting job she'd love to make into a career, let her work while she thinks about things.
And get her a tutor to pass her maths.

Agreed.

No-one in my immediate family has been to uni, I grew up on a Council estate. We are all hard working, have a reasonable standard living and want the best for our families.

The comment you quoted has to be one of the most offensive I have read on here! Good grief, and people wonder why Reform and other similar parties do well. If the holier-than- thou brigade will keep kicking the underdog, then one day it will bite back!

Let her do it. She'll likely be in the hospitaltiy industry for the rest of her life though. She wont get anything else without qualifications, she may think its good now but when she's 35 and all she can do is be a barmaid she may regret it.

It doesn't necessarily work like that, if she has initiative and is hardworking.

The endless focus on getting a degree at all costs is not helping young people. I've seen pictures of my plumbers house (and good for him)

I left school worked in a bar and was a bar manager for years then studied at open university and now in a “professional job” pay is better but I miss bar work. There’s roles for everyone in society. Forcing people into education when they’re not enjoying it or focussed is pointless

I would help her look for an apprenticeship to do with catering

@Createausername1970 it's changed in recent years you can now only leave school at 16 for a proper apprenticeship not just any minimum wage job. Apprenticeship usually have college on Fridays for those who haven't yet got maths or English gcse

Could you show her what your household income is after tax and all the bills, and show her what even a small flat would cost her to run

Ok, I didn't realise that.

But my DS was not in anything between 17 and 19 and apart from a couple of sessions with a life coach from a service funded by the local council, we had no contact from anyone.

To be fair, a chunk of that time was during various lockdowns, but I got the distinct impression that there was no framework in place to compel a 17/18 year old into college or an apprenticeship.

Agree with others on here that the attitudes are disgusting! Exams are NOT the b all and end all in life. Yes they can open doors but even now opportunities exist for those without based on connections, personality, hard work. Not every job in the universe is picked by a CV.
education is something that can be picked up at any point in life if she decides she does want to pursue it but to force her through it now will achieve absolutely nothing. You can possibly make her attend but you can’t force her to pass and she’ll likely be extremely miserable in the meantime.
people need to take a good look at themselves world around them. Some of the world’s most “successful” (hate that word because what is success, a happy child living a full and enriched life is my measure of success not the numbers on a wage slip or the job title!) people left school at her age or younger Alan Sugar, Richard Branson, Simon Cowell, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Jamie Oliver and even John Major!
I left school at 16 (I’m 52), my husband did A levels and he’s 47. Both of us have done ok in life without having dozens of qualifications because we’ve earned opportunities.
I would sit down with her and by all means put across your concerns but if she’s set on this course then discuss how you move forward with her starting to pay her way.

I’d let her drop out of sixth form but with some conditions - if she’s working full time, she must pay you rent and contribute (you can decide what you do with that - I know some parents ultimately end up putting it in a savings account), and in one years time she has to be enrolled in some sort of educational course?

Getting the end of school exams, be it academic or technical, opens doors. She can work in the pub in a years time - 30weeks of schooling more or less with qualifications. You’ve done fine but things are tougher now as you really need the basic level evidence of schooling. If she drops out, soon she’ll be up against those with gcse math etc. It’s easier now to get the basic exams passed than doing it all later. I’ve a friend who went to night school to get the exams that she’d walked away from years ago. It was tough but she did it. It won’t help with jobs because she’s near retirement - it’s because she always felt lacking.

I would probably react as you have done because I want more for my daughter.

But I also think sometimes kids at that age (particularly where there is possible neurodiversity) are so drained from the constant treadmill of exams and revision that a couple of years doing something completely unrelated, but where there's also a level of responsibility, is quite character building.

You're right that working in a pub is probably not the ideal solution for the rest of her life but it may be right for now. I would bet after a couple of years she may be much more keen to restart education anyway.

Times have changed eh, when ‘being an actor’ is the career she must not abandon for any reason, while ‘working in hospitality’ is the devil’s bath water…

She obviously has a talent for hospo work, which is (actually) rare. While the pp who said the pub will likely give her hours to the next minimum wage place is likely right, not everywhere is like that. I would encourage her to research bigger companies, other college courses, apprentices etc and, if she can come up with a workable plan to develop herself and her skills, let her leave. She’s 17, she’s old enough to both know her own mind and to make a few mistakes along the way.

You’re going to have to pay the scholarship back anyway, because another year of this is untenable. In fact, she needs to pay the scholarship back, she can do that from the pub earnings. That should be a condition.

So what do they do, put the kid in prison for a year? What this means in practice is that the 16/17 year old can’t claim any benefits. You can’t compel young adults to stay at school.

Make it clear to her that if she leaves SHE will have to pay the scholarship back. This is part of being an adult and is probably the best deterrent you've got.

Good points have been made already about whether she will be replaced by a younger model and explaining to her how much she will need to earn to support herself.